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Old 02-02-2022, 06:48 PM   #63441
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Lol yeah. He always used to do these rope walk/spring board moves but would fall off 90% of the times. In the racial discrimination lawsuit Arn Anderson goes into details how he kept telling Walker to practice those things in training, not on live T.V but Walker would ignore him
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Old 02-02-2022, 07:30 PM   #63442
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Old 02-02-2022, 07:34 PM   #63443
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Lollllll wtf.
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Old 02-02-2022, 07:37 PM   #63444
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My God.
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Old 02-03-2022, 06:07 AM   #63445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner View Post
Lol yeah. He always used to do these rope walk/spring board moves but would fall off 90% of the times. In the racial discrimination lawsuit Arn Anderson goes into details how he kept telling Walker to practice those things in training, not on live T.V but Walker would ignore him
That’s incredible.
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Old 02-03-2022, 08:49 AM   #63446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slikhausen View Post
A first look at Beth Phoenix and Shawn Michaels from the Performance Center of the WWE 2K22 MyRISE Mode ��#WWE2K22 pic.twitter.com/cIrtgq5fD2
— The SmackDown Hotel �� #WWE2K22 (@TheSDHotel) February 2, 2022



But they gave Beth Phoenix HBK's eyes.
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Old 02-03-2022, 09:56 AM   #63447
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Question
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Originally Posted by Jordan View Post
If on the horizon for wrestling in the US there is a new company in the distance, there is one thing I am really hoping for. When I watch WWE or AEW, New Japan, Impact... everyone is doing this "hyper-speed" pro wrestling. It's all influenced by Japan and early ROH days. This style that works well for smaller people, the dives and kick pads, the thigh slaps and limited selling for devastating spots.

I really want a product that does none of that. Go back to the basic and drag down the action to a point where the back and forth punches of a Bockwinkle and Lawler in the Memphis Coliseum would rivet the audience like they were in a Rocky movie.

There is such a focus of gymnastic style moves and to an extent it's cool. Like when Ricochet and Ospreay did that match several years ago in the J Cup, that was game changing. It was like Marvel meets wrestling. As a spectacle, or a showcase it was cool but now that is dominating the cards.

I still love watching AEW and a lot of their super speed matches are really cool but I do really want to see someone go with a different take. If that hypothetical promotion were to ever happen.

Of course there is always the chance that ROH could turn their product into something different when they return. I mean they have a lot of guys I'd try to get back like Gresham and Bandido, but they also had Adam Scherr on their last show. I wonder if that is a sign that they are going to be picking up some new names, since obviously they were able to get out of all their other contracts that will be happening on some level.

Also just wanted to mention that FTR did show up at the Final Battle PPV and face off with The Briscoes. While that could be a match that get's a spot on a GCW or perhaps even an AEW show, I think it would make more sense for that match to take place at ROH's return WM weekend at Supercard of Honor.

ROH will probably have a pretty interesting card for that show and I do expect that AEW will lend a hand, and we are likely to see some new signings that we didn't expect so that show will be worth watching.
That will never happen. Or at least never take off in any meaningful way. This fast paced style has been around for a long time, but became so popular because it reflects modern society's obsession with instant gratification.

There will always be fans who can appreciate the slow burn of old school wrestling, but as long as we live in a culture that needs everything right this instant, it will never take off with mainstream audiences.
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Old 02-03-2022, 12:21 PM   #63448
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Outstanding lol
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Old 02-03-2022, 02:54 PM   #63449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
That will never happen. Or at least never take off in any meaningful way. This fast paced style has been around for a long time, but became so popular because it reflects modern society's obsession with instant gratification.

There will always be fans who can appreciate the slow burn of old school wrestling, but as long as we live in a culture that needs everything right this instant, it will never take off with mainstream audiences.
I don’t know if I agree with this. Normally your posts are pretty spot-on, but I think too much cynical is written about younger generations, technology and how we consume media. Yes, it has changed. But that doesn’t mean people can’t appreciate a story or something with a more deliberate pace. I’d suggest that people’s appetite for finely crafted drama has only increased over the years.
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Old 02-03-2022, 03:47 PM   #63450
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I have this image of a product that looks similar to Lucha Underground at The Temple, is wrestled a bit more like Bloodsport where less is more. The promotion would start with a G-1 Style tournament. Call it something different of course but it's a league tournament.
Imagine a 20 or so show tour broadcast on FITE with a mega roster of available talent out there right now.

Based off that you could have an entire promotion to go forward.
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Old 02-03-2022, 05:10 PM   #63451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
I don’t know if I agree with this. Normally your posts are pretty spot-on, but I think too much cynical is written about younger generations, technology and how we consume media. Yes, it has changed. But that doesn’t mean people can’t appreciate a story or something with a more deliberate pace. I’d suggest that people’s appetite for finely crafted drama has only increased over the years.
I don't disagree entirely, but in regards to this industry specifically, I can't see mainstream fans going back to slower style matches. I think you can throw the occasional old school style match in there, but a product that is entirely, or even mostly that will get rejected. Do casual fans even talk about ring psychology, story telling, or any of the subtle details that make a great performance?
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Old 02-03-2022, 05:13 PM   #63452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan View Post
I have this image of a product that looks similar to Lucha Underground at The Temple, is wrestled a bit more like Bloodsport where less is more. The promotion would start with a G-1 Style tournament. Call it something different of course but it's a league tournament.
Imagine a 20 or so show tour broadcast on FITE with a mega roster of available talent out there right now.

Based off that you could have an entire promotion to go forward.
I would love a promotion that adopts a grounded sports presentation and showcases actual classic strong style wrestling as opposed to the indyriffic imitation we have today.

I was excited for AEW because when Cody was describing it, that's what it kind of sounded like, but it's obviously not what we got.
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Old 02-03-2022, 05:20 PM   #63453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
I don't disagree entirely, but in regards to this industry specifically, I can't see mainstream fans going back to slower style matches. I think you can throw the occasional old school style match in there, but a product that is entirely, or even mostly that will get rejected. Do casual fans even talk about ring psychology, story telling, or any of the subtle details that make a great performance?
psychology and story telling arent things people dicuss theyre things that draw people in against their will when done correctly and its those factors that are misisng from most of all modern wrestling and its that void that keeps the product from working
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Old 02-03-2022, 05:26 PM   #63454
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I have doubts whether that's enough anymore. The draw of wrestling during its biggest boom periods were the characters more than the wrestling itself. Obviously having great wrestling compliments those characters, and you want that in the product, but if you can't create stars, does it even matter whether your product old school wrestling or modern spotfests?
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Old 02-03-2022, 05:53 PM   #63455
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I think you’re drawing a line between characters and psychology that doesn’t need to be there. Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin and The Rock all had excellent psychology. People might attribute it to “character.” More casual fans might attribute it to them being “cool” or just who they are as people. But that is conveyed a lot of the time through psychology. It’s like a grounding of that character.

If Austin started coming out doing cartwheels, in fluro pink trunks and his finishing move was a moonsault that he got power for from kissing a baby — the whole act falls apart. Good psychology means being “on” as an entity, and doing things that your character, based in a sports-setting, would do.
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Old 02-03-2022, 05:54 PM   #63456
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Or just read Destor’s posts.
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Old 02-03-2022, 06:06 PM   #63457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
I don't disagree entirely, but in regards to this industry specifically, I can't see mainstream fans going back to slower style matches. I think you can throw the occasional old school style match in there, but a product that is entirely, or even mostly that will get rejected. Do casual fans even talk about ring psychology, story telling, or any of the subtle details that make a great performance?
See ... I'm not so sure that back in "the day" that the majority of fans really sought out a "great match" like obviously a stinker is a stinker but there wasn't this standard of certain spots you had to hit for it to be a classic. Now you have the tope suicida's, the apron work, trading finishers and kick out, finisher off the top etc...

Fans really cared a lot more about the story and how their guy grows to overcome the bad guy. But still within that you had those more athletic performers like Shawn, Steamboat or Owen, the technical aces like Bret or Mr. Perfect, but obviously the characters that were compelling like Jake, Heenan, DiBiase and Flair. Then the monsters like Yoko or Bundy, Andre or Vader.

When I was a kid I only really noticed the match quality when it was a shit match, otherwise I was pretty much into whatever.
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Old 02-03-2022, 06:07 PM   #63458
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Foleyhausen is really good people.
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Old 02-03-2022, 11:42 PM   #63459
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Old 02-04-2022, 09:47 AM   #63460
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lol Goldberg vs Reigns at Blood Money 7 seems to be the plan atm.
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Old 02-04-2022, 09:49 AM   #63461
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Old 02-04-2022, 09:59 AM   #63462
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lol Goldberg vs Reigns at Blood Money 7 seems to be the plan atm.



ugh.
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Old 02-04-2022, 10:23 AM   #63463
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Nice job putting words into my mouth. I’ve always said that talent should be able to leave the WWE if they want. I’m just able to see their perspective too, given that WWE offers a global platform to allow people to market themselves. Bo competes definitely make sense. As does not rewarding an idiot for going public saying that he wants to break his contract like that is a key. Brian Kendrick has already been released from his deal. Bad-mouthing the company, whether you agree with their hiring/firing policies or not is a stupid motherfucking way to go about achieving your goal, if your goal is actually to get out.

Jeff Hardy didn’t ask for his release from the company. Do you know how I know this? Because they didn’t fucking fire him when they were looking to unload people.

They recently sent Mustafa Ali over to Saudi Arabia. That’s one of their highest paying gigs of the year. And they have been firing people who don’t want to be there to save money. That’s why Lucha House Party went. Mustafa Ali probably would have gone if he didn’t make such an unprofessional stink.

By the way, Tony Khan is apparently pretty hell-bent on getting people to honor their contracts too. We’ll see if he’s got the guts, but let’s not pretend it’s just Evil Vince.
One, way to complain about somebody putting words in your mouth, but then proceeded to do the same to me. Pot/kettle. But, I said that with an eyeroll, and it wasn't supposed to be a focal point of the issue, so fair, I'll take that one.

Two, not releasing Jeff isn't necessarily "evidence" he never asked - or more importantly what I actually said of *wanted* to ask - for a release. There may even be other oeople who are/have been quiet about wanting to leave and being kept in the background while silently hoping to get dismissed early. We don't know that either, though, because if they exist, they're quiet. If Mustafa Ali didn't take to social media, there's still no guarantee he would've been granted his release just because he was publicly quiet. He might have been just as mad, and just as beholden to his contract, but nobody would have known. Jeff might have even asked and also told no. They probably wanted him to ride out his time as well. We really don't know that, because the only speculation at the time was about a potential wellness policy violation vs his history of them.

Three, you would think that "badmouthing the company" would be a fast track out the door, not a reason the place keeps you around. It is a perverse sort of "punishment"and once again, a strange business strategy. If I publicly told my boss in so many words to go fuck himself, I'm 99% certain (margin of error and all) he wouldn't keep me around just to prevent me from potentially working for a competitor. There is no "their side to see" here, and it goes back to the hyperbole I used about being "held hostage". He can't leave, without some sort of contractual detriment, and they won't let him just because he wants it? That is a petty point for a publically traded company. Seeing the company ceasing to employ someone as a "reward" that they are unwilling to give is ass backwards. "He should be thankful he gets to be on TV" doesn't work when he isn't on TV, yet still is expected to travel like he is. It is also ironically making people figure this is some sort of work that is going to be the start of some SCSA type push or the thing when Austin Aries walked out of Impact how he did.

Four, everything is NOT a Vince vs Tony argument. Who gives a shit about TK holding people to their contracts? Good for him. Not the same thing, though. He's been holding on to talent and just letting contracts lapse instead of cutting them in a manner of "post wrestlemania housecleaning". He isn't in a situation like this, though. If, say, Darby Allin wanted out and Tony said "no", then kept him off TV but made him show up for all the tapings anyway, we could make some sort of apples to apples comparison. And AEW would indeed be just as shitty as WWE. It isn't championing for AEW. It is barely even involving them outside of the natural speculation (but not guarantee) that it is the most likely place he'd show up and he'd likely be expected (but again not guaranteed) to thrive. But you could substitute any fed there, including New Japan. For the argument itself, AEW is a non-factor.

The only thing that even *makes* this an "evil WWE" issue is the long history of this type of thing being an "evil WWE" issue.

To pull a completely different example, I will mention Gallows & Anderson. No matter what anyone thinks about "Medium Show and Small Show", they made BIG NOISE in New Japan. Enough to warrant the attention of WWE- a company with deeo pockets, but notoriously wishy-washy about how they present and book and push tag teams... especially ones they didn't create. It wasn't super long until they went from Bullet Club buzz to just another couple of guys on the roster. Eventually, they would have been split up, repackaged, or shitcanned (or all three) if the formation of AEW wasn't happening. Now, suddenly, they had value to WWE again if only in denying somebody else - especially an organization made up of their well-publicized friends - access to them. They sign them to these big contracts to keep them off the table, then decide like five months in that they didn't want to pay the Good Brothers anymore. How shitty or not that was doesn't hinge on which side balked. If G&A weren't happy and walked out, there would have been a lot of hay made about them being "unprofessional", but because WWE changed their minds on the boatload of cash and multiyear deal they just signed, somehow "that's just business"?

I mentioned before they've kept people under contract or even extended their contract time just to fuck with them. Publicly calling bullshit on that shouldn't make the talent the villain.
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Old 02-04-2022, 02:19 PM   #63464
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Old 02-04-2022, 03:19 PM   #63465
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omg i am going to roll up to the WM party this year jamming this on max volume. It will be wondrous.
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Old 02-04-2022, 03:32 PM   #63466
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lol Goldberg vs Reigns at Blood Money 7 seems to be the plan atm.
Pretty smart match for the show. It was scheduled to happen and the last time we saw Goldberg he was going over the current WWE Champion. Plus, Reigns is now feuding with Brock, who is one of Goldberg’s most iconic opponents (definitely in this run).

You’ve got this, an Elimination Chamber featuring some pretty amazing talent and Becky Lynch vs. Lita. That’s a pretty stacked show.
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Old 02-04-2022, 03:37 PM   #63467
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watching tracey smothers work a gcw crowd from 2019 and he is so damn good. using jim cornette's birthday to get heat. a brilliant man.
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Old 02-04-2022, 03:37 PM   #63468
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One, way to complain about somebody putting words in your mouth, but then proceeded to do the same to me. Pot/kettle. But, I said that with an eyeroll, and it wasn't supposed to be a focal point of the issue, so fair, I'll take that one.

Two, not releasing Jeff isn't necessarily "evidence" he never asked - or more importantly what I actually said of *wanted* to ask - for a release. There may even be other oeople who are/have been quiet about wanting to leave and being kept in the background while silently hoping to get dismissed early. We don't know that either, though, because if they exist, they're quiet. If Mustafa Ali didn't take to social media, there's still no guarantee he would've been granted his release just because he was publicly quiet. He might have been just as mad, and just as beholden to his contract, but nobody would have known. Jeff might have even asked and also told no. They probably wanted him to ride out his time as well. We really don't know that, because the only speculation at the time was about a potential wellness policy violation vs his history of them.

Three, you would think that "badmouthing the company" would be a fast track out the door, not a reason the place keeps you around. It is a perverse sort of "punishment"and once again, a strange business strategy. If I publicly told my boss in so many words to go fuck himself, I'm 99% certain (margin of error and all) he wouldn't keep me around just to prevent me from potentially working for a competitor. There is no "their side to see" here, and it goes back to the hyperbole I used about being "held hostage". He can't leave, without some sort of contractual detriment, and they won't let him just because he wants it? That is a petty point for a publically traded company. Seeing the company ceasing to employ someone as a "reward" that they are unwilling to give is ass backwards. "He should be thankful he gets to be on TV" doesn't work when he isn't on TV, yet still is expected to travel like he is. It is also ironically making people figure this is some sort of work that is going to be the start of some SCSA type push or the thing when Austin Aries walked out of Impact how he did.

Four, everything is NOT a Vince vs Tony argument. Who gives a shit about TK holding people to their contracts? Good for him. Not the same thing, though. He's been holding on to talent and just letting contracts lapse instead of cutting them in a manner of "post wrestlemania housecleaning". He isn't in a situation like this, though. If, say, Darby Allin wanted out and Tony said "no", then kept him off TV but made him show up for all the tapings anyway, we could make some sort of apples to apples comparison. And AEW would indeed be just as shitty as WWE. It isn't championing for AEW. It is barely even involving them outside of the natural speculation (but not guarantee) that it is the most likely place he'd show up and he'd likely be expected (but again not guaranteed) to thrive. But you could substitute any fed there, including New Japan. For the argument itself, AEW is a non-factor.

The only thing that even *makes* this an "evil WWE" issue is the long history of this type of thing being an "evil WWE" issue.

To pull a completely different example, I will mention Gallows & Anderson. No matter what anyone thinks about "Medium Show and Small Show", they made BIG NOISE in New Japan. Enough to warrant the attention of WWE- a company with deeo pockets, but notoriously wishy-washy about how they present and book and push tag teams... especially ones they didn't create. It wasn't super long until they went from Bullet Club buzz to just another couple of guys on the roster. Eventually, they would have been split up, repackaged, or shitcanned (or all three) if the formation of AEW wasn't happening. Now, suddenly, they had value to WWE again if only in denying somebody else - especially an organization made up of their well-publicized friends - access to them. They sign them to these big contracts to keep them off the table, then decide like five months in that they didn't want to pay the Good Brothers anymore. How shitty or not that was doesn't hinge on which side balked. If G&A weren't happy and walked out, there would have been a lot of hay made about them being "unprofessional", but because WWE changed their minds on the boatload of cash and multiyear deal they just signed, somehow "that's just business"?

I mentioned before they've kept people under contract or even extended their contract time just to fuck with them. Publicly calling bullshit on that shouldn't make the talent the villain.
Going to try and be really succinct with this: The company does not want to set a precedent where unprofessionalism gets you what you want. They may offer him a conditional release, not grant him one or just release him with the next batch, but that sort of unprofessionalism is such bullshit.
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Old 02-04-2022, 03:47 PM   #63469
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Quote:
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watching tracey smothers work a gcw crowd from 2019 and he is so damn good. using jim cornette's birthday to get heat. a brilliant man.
lol holy shit he's having a "dance off to the death" with marko stunt. unreal.
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Old 02-04-2022, 03:56 PM   #63470
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Long twitter thread but none of it is really surprising
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Old 02-04-2022, 04:04 PM   #63471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ron the dial View Post
watching tracey smothers work a gcw crowd from 2019 and he is so damn good. using jim cornette's birthday to get heat. a brilliant man.
Smothers was so fucking great. FBI are the highlight of late 97/early 98 ECW. Everything his did was amazing.
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Old 02-04-2022, 04:06 PM   #63472
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Vince totally eye fucking Sunny
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Old 02-04-2022, 04:06 PM   #63473
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Smothers was so fucking great. FBI are the highlight of late 97/early 98 ECW. Everything his did was amazing.
he was fantastic in ecw. that's the era of ecw i'm most familiar with i'd say. but seeing him wrap a crowd around his finger with ease 20 years later is amazing.
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Old 02-04-2022, 04:08 PM   #63474
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IF I HEAR THIS CROWD CHANT GCW, I'M COMING OUT THERE AND EVERYBODY DIES.
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Old 02-04-2022, 04:19 PM   #63475
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I guess it's because it's my childhood but I really loved the post steriod WWF. The New Generation, I can always go back and watch that stuff and get sucked into it. Vince on commentary, King is the new Heenan, smaller venues with tons of kids... That Mania 10 card was so stacked. Truly sucks that they had to cut that 8-man tag (or was it 10?) because that match had a lot of stories that were prevalent at the time. What a great show.
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Old 02-04-2022, 04:51 PM   #63476
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Was pumped for that 10 man tag as a kid. Was shook that it didn’t happen.
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Old 02-04-2022, 05:07 PM   #63477
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what was the 10-man supposed to be?


also, i started watching wrestling in 1996. i fucking loved catching livewire on saturday, superstars on sunday and raw on monday (or whatever day when it was preempted by the dog show or tennis)
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Old 02-04-2022, 05:39 PM   #63478
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IRS, Headshrinkers, Martel and Jarrett vs 123 Kid, Bob Holly, Tatanka and Smoking Gunns.

It could have been a fun match considering the participants. I think they ended up having the match on Raw but I haven't seen it .
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Old 02-04-2022, 06:21 PM   #63479
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Kenny Omega randomly attacking Will Ospreay, very weird
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Old 02-04-2022, 08:33 PM   #63480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner View Post
IRS, Headshrinkers, Martel and Jarrett vs 123 Kid, Bob Holly, Tatanka and Smoking Gunns.

It could have been a fun match considering the participants. I think they ended up having the match on Raw but I haven't seen it .
Yeah I looked it up and it's the April 4th episode. It would have been a fun match to add to that Mania because every match is so different. Really a buffet show with the brilliant Owen/Bret match, laced with the story of the WWF Championship triangle with Luger/Yoko/Bret, you've got the brawl with Crush and Savage, the spectacle of Razor/HBK and the "fun" intergender tag match with Doink and Dink vs Luna and Bam Bam. Gonna have to do a Mania 10 re-watch on the Road to Mania this year.
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