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Old 07-08-2018, 11:35 PM   #641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan X View Post
Jumping the gun a bit on "career ending".... but yeah they should have someone that vito's bad ideas for spots.
I'd put this more as a freak accident similar to Joe's Muscle Buster on Tyson Kidd since Lee normally cradles the neck to keep the move completely safe. Last night he didn't have a sold grip before doing the move. Also the ref should have stopped the match but supposedly Takahasi told him he was feeling fine.

This is what his Phoenix Plex move looks like when its done correctly.
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Old 07-09-2018, 03:14 AM   #642
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Originally Posted by Ultra Mantis View Post
What the fuck is Barnett doing here, trying to get himself over?
I imagine it was an angle and that they are going to run Jay White vs. Josh Barnett at some point. White will probably take the cocky, arrogant young whippersnapper role going against the grizzled vet with a background. I applaud them for doing more angles when they are in the United States. Gets people talking and it's been a while since people have really seen angles in that organic sense. WWE has its own laws of nature.
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Old 07-09-2018, 03:25 AM   #643
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I was listening to Dave Meltzer on the show, and I just have to rant about something:

SPOILER: show
Meltz said that Juice Robinson is such a star and he's the guy that people really want to see succeed. What? No one has ever given two shits about CJ Parker. I didn't hate him in NXT. Granted, he was not spectacular, but I always thought he had "WWE potential" given he could do some extroverted stuff. When he got there in the ring he'd get there in the ring. That's a part he could learn. I was happy for the guy taking initiative and going to New Japan. But don't give me this crap about people loving the guy and him being a feel-good fucking story all along. It's great that he's gotten himself over with the US audience right now. This isn't so much a rant against Robinson, and I do love Meltzer, but fuck's sake. He cuts one promo and steals one show and he's been a star all along.

I'm probably taking Dave's hyperbole out of context, but I'm pretty sure no one gave a fuck about Juice Robinson outside that one promo I'm hearing about and that one match. Good for him, I hope he keeps it up. I do think it says something about the overrated talents of others when Jay White and Juice Robinson can steal the show from under you though. Just throwing that out there.

Good to hear Jay White did well too. Sucks to hear about Hiromu. No one needs to get hurt like that, but hopefully it smartens up some of the work and he comes back a bit wiser and a bit tighter.

Generally, I like the idea of them doing more angles in the US. Makes the shows feel important and makes them feel appropriately "Americanized." I'm not overly keen on Tama Tonga as a main event player and I'm still not sold on Cody in such a pivotal role, but I appreciate the effort and that they are trying to cycle new people into new positions. Unlike the WWE just randomly pushing Jinder and people telling me to like it because it's anyone new, I do appreciate that they're going to give things a good go and that they're not leaning 100% on the stuff that sells their tickets today.
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Old 07-09-2018, 03:33 AM   #644
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Also, fuck you all, JR is still endearing as fuck. I love Big Josh standing up for his buddy in the booth. Don Callis can do color commentary on an event horizon somewhere.
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Old 07-09-2018, 04:54 AM   #645
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I like JR

I like NJPW...maybe more than WWE r/n tbh
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Old 07-09-2018, 05:57 AM   #646
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I really, really want them to do well. And score Danielson and Lesnar from September onward.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:04 AM   #647
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Only thing I can think of with the phoenixplex spot is that there was a miscommunication and hiromu either didn't realize or forgot that it was a release version and tried to correct himself halfway through so that he'd land on his stomach, but was too close to the ground and wound up spiking himself
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:07 AM   #648
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Noid if you actually watched the product you would realise that Brock coming in would be a fucking terrible idea, JR and Barnett are totally unprofessional shitheads and Juice Robinson has been working his way up from basically an unofficial young lion to get where he is.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:10 AM   #649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
I really, really want them to do well. And score Danielson and Lesnar from September onward.
lol I still don't want Lesnar anywhere near NJPW.

His mindset seems like the antithesis of what has gotten NJPW to this point.

Danielson would be cool.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:15 AM   #650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultra Mantis View Post
Noid if you actually watched the product you would realise that Brock coming in would be a fucking terrible idea, JR and Barnett are totally unprofessional shitheads and Juice Robinson has been working his way up from basically an unofficial young lion to get where he is.
Brock is one of the best workers in the world and it would get the promotion so much more attention. If it actually happened, you would all cream yourselves. Creatively, it would be awesome. The only downside would be if it cost them more than he'd make back, which I don't think would be the case. How are JR and Josh Barnett unprofessional shitheads? JR wouldn't reference inside terminology during his calls, which automatically makes him an upgrade from Callis. Yeah, Juice Robinson has been working his way up, and every step of the way I've seen people whinge about CJ Parker getting spots they want to one of their favorites and him being shit. It's just annoying to hear people go "WOO! Juice Robinson! I've always been in the guy's corner!" Fuck off.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:16 AM   #651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
lol I still don't want Lesnar anywhere near NJPW.

His mindset seems like the antithesis of what has gotten NJPW to this point.

Danielson would be cool.
Brock Lesnar vs. Okada would be match of the decade. His mindset is to work and make as much money as possible. I'm pretty sure New Japan loves money.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:18 AM   #652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultra Mantis View Post
Noid if you actually watched the product you would realise that Brock coming in would be a fucking terrible idea, JR and Barnett are totally unprofessional shitheads and Juice Robinson has been working his way up from basically an unofficial young lion to get where he is.
Uh, yeah, hate to break it to ya noid, but NJPW has done a great job building Juice up over the last year. I hated CJ Parker as much as anyone, but after his performance in the G-1, I turned around on him completely. And he's only continued to improve.

As for the the "feel good" story, they actually explained on commentary how despite improving and advancing up the ladder, he's had three title oppurtunities but come up short each time. Classic "can't win the big one" story. Might be a bit clichéd but it does feel good when they do win said big one.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:20 AM   #653
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Also Juice is pretty over in Japan. Female fans in particular love him.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:21 AM   #654
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You kind of prove my point with that, Figgy.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:22 AM   #655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Ive seen people whinge about CJ Parker getting spots they want to one of their favorites and him being shit. It's just annoying to hear people go "WOO! Juice Robinson! I've always been in the guy's corner!" Fuck off.
Where have you seen this?
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:22 AM   #656
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You know how Noid rolls. Doesn't watch anything, then makes sweeping statements based on all the things he hasn't watched.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:26 AM   #657
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Your point about hating him and turning around on him recently; not the Japan thing, haha. Meltzer specifically said something along the lines of "People have always loved Juice Robinson. He's a guy that people have always rooted for." I'm paraphrasing. As I said, I am probably taking his noted hyperbole and optimism way too literally. I'm just saying that's bullshit. I'm not saying he's not good. I'm not saying he hasn't won crowds over. I'm just saying that people wrote him off as nothing special until really, really recently. This isn't a story of an indy darling finally getting the chance in the main event. This is more like people doing a swing on The Miz in 2016. It would be equally as bullshit to say that generally people have always thought The Miz is a great worker. It's got nothing to do with whether or not people love him now.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:27 AM   #658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dastardly One View Post
You know how Noid rolls. Doesn't watch anything, then makes sweeping statements based on all the things he hasn't watched.
Fuck off, Dale. I'm talking about things people have said about the things. It's got nothing to do with the thing itself.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:28 AM   #659
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Quote:
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You kind of prove my point with that, Figgy.
lol its not just female fans. They just have a strange attraction to him for some reason. Maybe a white dude with dreads is exotic to them.

Point is, fans in Japan value hard working talent and Juice worked his ass off to get to that title. That's why he's over.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:30 AM   #660
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Fuck off, Dale. I'm talking about things people have said about the things. It's got nothing to do with the thing itself.
lol. You're upset that people like a guy they've been watching and enjoying because you've decided they haven't been enjoying him, all while you haven't been watching him.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:30 AM   #661
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Maybe Meltzer meant literally "Juice Robinson" and wasn't counting his time as CJ Parker.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:39 AM   #662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
Maybe Meltzer meant literally "Juice Robinson" and wasn't counting his time as CJ Parker.
Maybe, but that would be oddly in kayfabe for him to ignore a dude's entire body of work. As I said, I heard it when I was tired. I'd be happy for someone to correct me on what Dave actually said, as opposed to Dale projecting however he wants to represent my position as, but I recall it being very close to "People love Juice because he's always been a great worker." I'm just saying that general sentiment is bullshit. I'm not saying that the statement "He's worked really hard and people are starting to appreciate him" (which is what you confirmed) is bullshit.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:39 AM   #663
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Originally Posted by The Dastardly One View Post
lol. You're upset that people like a guy they've been watching and enjoying because you've decided they haven't been enjoying him, all while you haven't been watching him.
You were wrong in the Money in the Bank thread and you're wrong here.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:40 AM   #664
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I have no desire to see Brock Lesnar throw around guys I like to see have more entertaining matches, with 3 moves for 15 minutes.

Brock doesn't give a shit about putting on the kind of matches NJPW has been showcasing. He just wants to get his paycheck and go home. I don't blame him for that. If I could get paid millions of dollars to do something I didn't give a fuck about, I'd do it too. I just don't want him around anything I'm passionate about.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:41 AM   #665
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I hope more people enjoy Juice Robinson, because I didn't hate him as CJ Parker (maybe I should have, lol).
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:42 AM   #666
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Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
I have no desire to see Brock Lesnar throw around guys I like to see have more entertaining matches, with 3 moves for 15 minutes.

Brock doesn't give a shit about putting on the kind of matches NJPW has been showcasing. He just wants to get his paycheck and go home. I don't blame him for that. If I could get paid millions of dollars to do something I didn't give a fuck about, I'd do it too. I just don't want him around anything I'm passionate about.
That's fair enough, subjectively, but why do you assume that the matches would be like that? When the guy wants to create art he has the best matches in WWE. Brock vs. AJ from last year springs to mind.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:43 AM   #667
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Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Maybe, but that would be oddly in kayfabe for him to ignore a dude's entire body of work. As I said, I heard it when I was tired. I'd be happy for someone to correct me on what Dave actually said, as opposed to Dale projecting however he wants to represent my position as, but I recall it being very close to "People love Juice because he's always been a great worker." I'm just saying that general sentiment is bullshit. I'm not saying that the statement "He's worked really hard and people are starting to appreciate him" (which is what you confirmed) is bullshit.
I mean there are multiple ways to interpret it. By "people" he could have meant behind the scenes, not fans. If he has always been liked and respected for his work ethic backstage, then its an accurate statement.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:51 AM   #668
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I mean there are multiple ways to interpret it. By "people" he could have meant behind the scenes, not fans. If he has always been liked and respected for his work ethic backstage, then its an accurate statement.
Fair enough. That's not how it came off to me though. It came off to me as "Juice Robinson has always been great." But with that said, I can't remember the exact combination of words, so maybe that wasn't what was intended, haha. That's why I put it in fucking spoiler tags. You read it at your behest.

I'm not even angry at Dave or anything -- he's great -- I just wanted to get it off my chest because at 2:30 in the morning it rubbed me wrong. It felt like a complete revisionist perspective on the guy's entire WWE and New Japan career. That his modern turnaround is actually the guy's been the best kept secret in pro-wrestling all along. But the guy was probably tired (apparently it was a huge weekend) and he was live on the air. It's whatever. I'm sure he'd agree with your assessment. It just rubbed me the wrong way because I very distinctly remember people writing the dude off. Which is fine. I don't care about that. Let's just not say we didn't if we did.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:53 AM   #669
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That's fair enough, subjectively, but why do you assume that the matches would be like that? When the guy wants to create art he has the best matches in WWE. Brock vs. AJ from last year springs to mind.
AJ Styles could make ME look like a million bucks in the ring. I've seen people use this match to defend Brock before but come on. Let's not pretend the reason that match was great wasn't vastly because Brock was facing one of the best wrestlers on the planet. I mean gods sake, AJ spent the first 10 minutes selling for Brock better than anyone ever has.

I get that the "spectacle" of Lesnar still exists for some people, but for me, its long gone. I hope he continues to do mma because that's where he belongs. Because he's passionate about it. He WANTS to be there.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:56 AM   #670
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And I'm not saying that Dave overrates Japanese stuff. Well, I think he does given his blown-up star system, but he overrates stuff in the US sometimes too. He's got to do something to get through his day, I guess. I just disagree with the point that people have really been champing at the bit for this guy to become something. He's barely even come up in this thread. It'll probably start happening for him now. Good for him.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:59 AM   #671
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I think people that follow nj, and have watched his progression, were genuinely rooting for him tonight. Gedo is a hell of a booker.
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Old 07-09-2018, 08:02 AM   #672
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Speaking of Gedo being shell of a booker, woooooooooo firing squad. I've mentioned a few times now that I've wanted the Tongans to split.
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Old 07-09-2018, 08:02 AM   #673
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AJ Styles could make ME look like a million bucks in the ring. I've seen people use this match to defend Brock before but come on. Let's not pretend the reason that match was great wasn't vastly because Brock was facing one of the best wrestlers on the planet. I mean gods sake, AJ spent the first 10 minutes selling for Brock better than anyone ever has.

I get that the "spectacle" of Lesnar still exists for some people, but for me, its long gone. I hope he continues to do mma because that's where he belongs. Because he's passionate about it. He WANTS to be there.
AJ's great, so that doesn't hurt, but Brock has done great work with lots of people. It's not just people selling for him; it's how he sells for other people (when it's time). And it's how much he can get out of so little.

I agree that the spectacle has been tarnished, but I don't put that on Brock. I put that on Vince not being able to create a conquering babyface people actually like, and him not having the believable guys -- or not going with the believable guys -- in order for Brock to make them look like the dragon slayer.

That's why I hope Brock leaves. Because he can have that spectacle, and he does carry that credibility. And if he went somewhere that actually had babyfaces that people liked -- holy shit. The dude's a perfect successor to big bad-ass gaijin like Vader and Hansen, except Brock probably carries more stateside commercial weight.
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Old 07-09-2018, 08:05 AM   #674
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I think people that follow nj, and have watched his progression, were genuinely rooting for him tonight. Gedo is a hell of a booker.
I think they were rooting for him tonight. And yes, Gedo is a hell of a booker.
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Old 07-09-2018, 08:08 AM   #675
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Speaking of Gedo being shell of a booker, woooooooooo firing squad. I've mentioned a few times now that I've wanted the Tongans to split.
I like this move, because it's an attempt to progress things. I like the inclusion of Haku. It seems like something that would appeal to internet fans given the lore around him, and it's cool to have such an OG around, limited as he always was.

I was thinking in the car before that they have a chance to treat their islanders like bad-asses, whereas the WWE tries to turn all of theirs into geeks.
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Old 07-09-2018, 08:16 AM   #676
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Why are JR and Barnett unprofessional, by the way? The only thing I have ever heard was when some of the junior heavyweights got upset because JR got the names wrong. I think it was The Young Bucks. Fuck them, frankly, haha. Is there more to it?
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Old 07-09-2018, 08:33 AM   #677
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Eh, for a while they didn't really know the product. Messed up names and missed calls on signature moves and such.

I don't really care. A lot of times I'll just listen to the Japanese commentary. Can't understand them but they put a crazy amount of emotion into it. Better than listening to Kevin Kelly anyway.
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Old 07-09-2018, 10:30 AM   #678
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In the opening match yesterday JR was saying Yujiro was an up and coming junior heavyweight who could rise to the rank of heavyweight soon.

Yujiro's been around for ages, and he's been a heavyweight for ages. Yeah he's not much more than a jobber to the stars but if you're gonna try to provide backstory on someone, make sure its accurate.
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Old 07-09-2018, 10:41 AM   #679
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Juice is not a star. a good act for sure but not a star.
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:03 AM   #680
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I want to see Josh Barnett vs. Jay White now
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