TPWW Forums  

Go Back   TPWW Forums > w r e s t l i n g > wrestling forum
Reload this Page All Elite Wrestling
Register Members List

Reply
Page 17 of 403 « First 78910111213141516 17 1819202122232425262767117 Last »
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-16-2019, 10:45 PM   #641
Mr. Nerfect
 
Posts: 61,121
Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
CW Network could be a possibility for AEW too. We haven’t really talked about that too much.
Mr. Nerfect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2019, 11:04 PM   #642
rez
2 Dicks out for Trips
 
rez's Avatar
 
Posts: 17,196
rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
CW Network could be a possibility for AEW too. We haven’t really talked about that too much.
I'm hoping for TNT/TBS but CW would be the next best option. Any FOX or NBC stations aren't happening because WWE. Some random ESPN Ocho wouldn't be good... WGN would be..meh. I forgot it existed.
rez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2019, 11:08 PM   #643
Mr. Nerfect
 
Posts: 61,121
Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Well, my heart was on TBS or TNT too, but the CW actually has higher viewership, I believe. But do they want a network show or a cable one? There are probably “pressures” with a network show. I could see them simply cross-promoting due to the Cody/Arrow connection, or running Clash/SNME equivalents. They’re all under the Warner banner though.

Low-key hoping for an AEW/Mortal Kombat crossover.
Mr. Nerfect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2019, 11:11 PM   #644
rez
2 Dicks out for Trips
 
rez's Avatar
 
Posts: 17,196
rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
I always forget that CW is a network channel.

Damn do I want that TNT AEW Tuesday Night Dynamite, tho
rez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2019, 11:14 PM   #645
Mr. Nerfect
 
Posts: 61,121
Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
I think that’s always been the goal. Hence the name of the show.
Mr. Nerfect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2019, 11:14 PM   #646
rez
2 Dicks out for Trips
 
rez's Avatar
 
Posts: 17,196
rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Word
rez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2019, 11:17 PM   #647
rez
2 Dicks out for Trips
 
rez's Avatar
 
Posts: 17,196
rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Not that WCW was anything but shit in the end but that AOL merger was one of the worst things to happen to wrestling.
rez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2019, 11:18 PM   #648
Mr. Nerfect
 
Posts: 61,121
Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
WCW made it a common sense decision to cut them off. They were losing so much fucking Turner money, and there was no end in sight.
Mr. Nerfect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2019, 11:22 PM   #649
rez
2 Dicks out for Trips
 
rez's Avatar
 
Posts: 17,196
rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
True. I still believe the brand could have been saved. Restructure contracts, purge Russo, etc.

TNA is still alive, after all.
rez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2019, 12:56 AM   #650
Mr. Nerfect
 
Posts: 61,121
Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
The contracts weren’t going to be restructured and they were probably going to be used on to, and they weren’t going to draw anymore. They stumbled with Sting, fell on their ass with Goldberg, rolled down a hill with the Fingerpoke and then fell off a cliff with the Flair/Hogan double-turn. It was done by 1999.

TNA may be technically operating, but they have ~20,000 viewers (including Twitch), and hardly alive. The day the plug is pulled is not the day they were officially brain dead.
Mr. Nerfect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2019, 01:32 AM   #651
xrodmuc316
CodeBot Engaged...WOAAHH!
 
xrodmuc316's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,679
xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
CW Network could be a possibility for AEW too. We haven’t really talked about that too much.
I have heard a few rumblings about CW. It makes sense, Aarow is one of their most successful shows, and the cross promotion would be the easiest thing to do with Cody and Stephen Amell, who I'm sure has at least a voice/opinion the network would listen to.

And CW's lineage does include a weekly wrestling show with Smackdown, so it's not a total unknown for them either.

As far as AEW goes, while it's not a big 4 network channel, it is still Network TV, and a Network deal right out of the bat would have to be the best case scenario over any cable channel.
xrodmuc316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2019, 01:57 AM   #652
xrodmuc316
CodeBot Engaged...WOAAHH!
 
xrodmuc316's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,679
xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
WCW made it a common sense decision to cut them off. They were losing so much fucking Turner money, and there was no end in sight.
If you take Eric Bischoff at his word, which I do cause his story hasn't changed in almost 20 years, and he did try to buy it for further proof, but he said WCW wasn't really losing that much money.

When the merger happened they classified WCW as "other" with a bunch of other things at Turner that were losing money also, with the intent of unless I adding all of it to make the merger look good.

WCW didn't go out of business like ECW did where they had to declare bankruptcy, AOL/Time Warner just didn't want wrestling in their portfolio so they pulled the TV deal and took nothing for it.

They could have sold WCW for $45 Million with its current TV deals, and instead they cancelled the TV deals and sold it to Vince instead for $40 Million less.

They were willing to lose all the ad revenue that Nitro and Thunder brought, and an additional $40 Million instead of airing wrestling. Plus they still had to keep paying the full contract of every single wrestler who didn't take a buyout so they could go work for Vince.

Vince only took on like 6 contracts when he bought WCW, Booker T, Chavo, 2 other really low paying guys, I think Hurricane might have been one, and 2 of them were Torrie and Stacy who weren't making crap either. Everybody else in the Invasion got a lump sum buyout from AOL/Time Warner, so that is also more money they gave away just to get rid of wrestling.

Hogan, Hall, Nash, Goldberg, Sting, Flair, Mysterio, Steiner, Savage, Mr Perfect, those guys all sat at home getting paid their full amount until their contracts expired.
xrodmuc316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2019, 01:58 AM   #653
rez
2 Dicks out for Trips
 
rez's Avatar
 
Posts: 17,196
rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
The contracts weren’t going to be restructured and they were probably going to be used on to, and they weren’t going to draw anymore. They stumbled with Sting, fell on their ass with Goldberg, rolled down a hill with the Fingerpoke and then fell off a cliff with the Flair/Hogan double-turn. It was done by 1999.

TNA may be technically operating, but they have ~20,000 viewers (including Twitch), and hardly alive. The day the plug is pulled is not the day they were officially brain dead.
I only work on hindsight
rez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2019, 02:21 AM   #654
Mr. Nerfect
 
Posts: 61,121
Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 View Post
If you take Eric Bischoff at his word, which I do cause his story hasn't changed in almost 20 years, and he did try to buy it for further proof, but he said WCW wasn't really losing that much money.

When the merger happened they classified WCW as "other" with a bunch of other things at Turner that were losing money also, with the intent of unless I adding all of it to make the merger look good.

WCW didn't go out of business like ECW did where they had to declare bankruptcy, AOL/Time Warner just didn't want wrestling in their portfolio so they pulled the TV deal and took nothing for it.

They could have sold WCW for $45 Million with its current TV deals, and instead they cancelled the TV deals and sold it to Vince instead for $40 Million less.

They were willing to lose all the ad revenue that Nitro and Thunder brought, and an additional $40 Million instead of airing wrestling. Plus they still had to keep paying the full contract of every single wrestler who didn't take a buyout so they could go work for Vince.

Vince only took on like 6 contracts when he bought WCW, Booker T, Chavo, 2 other really low paying guys, I think Hurricane might have been one, and 2 of them were Torrie and Stacy who weren't making crap either. Everybody else in the Invasion got a lump sum buyout from AOL/Time Warner, so that is also more money they gave away just to get rid of wrestling.

Hogan, Hall, Nash, Goldberg, Sting, Flair, Mysterio, Steiner, Savage, Mr Perfect, those guys all sat at home getting paid their full amount until their contracts expired.
I don’t take Bischoff on his word at all. Dude is a used car salesman that could only sell new cars.

If WCW was making money, and Bischoff was not a cunt to deal with, there is no way they would have chopped it. They chased away ad revenue, ratings, revenue streams, and all hope of it ever being profitable. Jamie Kellner didn’t shoot WCW in the head, he simply pulled the plug.

They could have sold WCW for more, but I’m willing to bet they just wanted it off their hands by then, and were ready to write off the loss. You also have to consider who would have even bought it. It was a dead brand, and when Vince tried to get it on networks later in 2001, no one was having it. And not even Vince was willing to buy those AOL-Time Warner contracts.

WCW had a lot of assets, but the value of what they could bring to TV. It cost more money to operate than it was making. That’s the ultimate factor there. There is no sane projection where WCW could come back.
Mr. Nerfect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2019, 02:21 AM   #655
rez
2 Dicks out for Trips
 
rez's Avatar
 
Posts: 17,196
rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)rez makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 View Post
If you take Eric Bischoff at his word, which I do cause his story hasn't changed in almost 20 years, and he did try to buy it for further proof, but he said WCW wasn't really losing that much money.

When the merger happened they classified WCW as "other" with a bunch of other things at Turner that were losing money also, with the intent of unless I adding all of it to make the merger look good.

WCW didn't go out of business like ECW did where they had to declare bankruptcy, AOL/Time Warner just didn't want wrestling in their portfolio so they pulled the TV deal and took nothing for it.

They could have sold WCW for $45 Million with its current TV deals, and instead they cancelled the TV deals and sold it to Vince instead for $40 Million less.

They were willing to lose all the ad revenue that Nitro and Thunder brought, and an additional $40 Million instead of airing wrestling. Plus they still had to keep paying the full contract of every single wrestler who didn't take a buyout so they could go work for Vince.

Vince only took on like 6 contracts when he bought WCW, Booker T, Chavo, 2 other really low paying guys, I think Hurricane might have been one, and 2 of them were Torrie and Stacy who weren't making crap either. Everybody else in the Invasion got a lump sum buyout from AOL/Time Warner, so that is also more money they gave away just to get rid of wrestling.

Hogan, Hall, Nash, Goldberg, Sting, Flair, Mysterio, Steiner, Savage, Mr Perfect, those guys all sat at home getting paid their full amount until their contracts expired.
You explained it better than I could. that
rez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2019, 02:21 AM   #656
Mr. Nerfect
 
Posts: 61,121
Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 View Post
I have heard a few rumblings about CW. It makes sense, Aarow is one of their most successful shows, and the cross promotion would be the easiest thing to do with Cody and Stephen Amell, who I'm sure has at least a voice/opinion the network would listen to.

And CW's lineage does include a weekly wrestling show with Smackdown, so it's not a total unknown for them either.

As far as AEW goes, while it's not a big 4 network channel, it is still Network TV, and a Network deal right out of the bat would have to be the best case scenario over any cable channel.
Mr. Nerfect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2019, 02:32 AM   #657
Mr. Nerfect
 
Posts: 61,121
Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Every show in 2000 was a money loser. They were running the same sized arenas and getting much smaller crowds (1,800 paid seems to be the average). They had cut their third hour so television ratings would have needed to soar in order to compensate for lost ad revenue. They went down.

Everything was just as expensive, if not more (factoring in talent) and they were getting less and less back. $67 million in one year is nothing to sneeze at. On top of that there was the Hogan litigation. It was a headache.

I get kind of annoyed seeing Kellner portrayed as the villain. WCW was run incompetently into a wall. They were returning less and less and costing more and more. It’s a no-brainer.
Mr. Nerfect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2019, 02:36 AM   #658
Mr. Nerfect
 
Posts: 61,121
Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
They probably could have milked Vince for more money. But despite having their best profit year ever, he was also tied up in the XFL. I doubt he would have been willing to come up much.
Mr. Nerfect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2019, 03:41 AM   #659
xrodmuc316
CodeBot Engaged...WOAAHH!
 
xrodmuc316's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,679
xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)xrodmuc316 makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Every show in 2000 was a money loser. They were running the same sized arenas and getting much smaller crowds (1,800 paid seems to be the average). They had cut their third hour so television ratings would have needed to soar in order to compensate for lost ad revenue. They went down.

Everything was just as expensive, if not more (factoring in talent) and they were getting less and less back. $67 million in one year is nothing to sneeze at. On top of that there was the Hogan litigation. It was a headache.

I get kind of annoyed seeing Kellner portrayed as the villain. WCW was run incompetently into a wall. They were returning less and less and costing more and more. It’s a no-brainer.
I only believe Bischoff cause his story has remained the same. Look at any other professional bullshitters, over the long haul they change details.

In 1999, WCW lost money, only a little, and that was their own fault. The whole Kiss demon gimmick was supposed to lead to a New Years Eve WCW/Kiss Concert PPV, which would have put WCW in the green for the year.

Then with the Merger, the big wigs got scared of putting on a live show because of Y2K fear. That actually happened, and they pulled the PPV off the table, along with turning a profit for the year.

WCW was still watchable at that point, but the decision makers got taken by the real used car salesman Vince Russo. WCW sent Bischoff home, essentially firing him while paying out the remainder of his contract.

Then in a few short months Vince Russo blew up everything WCW had built up for the last 3-4 years so quickly, including letting Benoit and company walk and show up on Raw. So WCW asked Bischoff to come back as a consultant and work with Russo, which lasted a few months until Russo went into business for himself with the whole Hogan thing.

The misconception about that is it wasn't the worked shoot of Jarrett lying down, it was the fact that after the match Hogan and Bischoff left, and then Russo cut a promo on Hogan and rebooked the title match, which is where the contract breach occurred in terms of Hogans creative control.

That was the year WCW lost that $67 or whatever it was million.

Russo and whoever put him in charge in combination with the merger as well as AOL/Time Warner not wanting wrestling in their channels is what killed WCW.

It wasn't one thing, just a combination of a bunch of bad circumstances. Of course WWE's narrative is they kicked WCWs ass out of business, but the victors get to write the history.
xrodmuc316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2019, 02:36 AM   #660
Mr. Nerfect
 
Posts: 61,121
Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
It’s a combination of a bunch, but Bischoff had already started to run WCW into the ground well before Russo came in. Russo certainly made things worse, but 1999 was not a good year for them.
Mr. Nerfect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2019, 02:39 AM   #661
Simple Fan
Let me talk to ya
 
Simple Fan's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,749
Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Thunder killed WCW.
Simple Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2019, 02:41 AM   #662
RP
King of Love and Piss
 
RP's Avatar
 
Posts: 62,989
RP makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)RP makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)RP makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)RP makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)RP makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)RP makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)RP makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)RP makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)RP makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)RP makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)RP makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)RP makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)RP makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
WHAT TIME DOES AEW COME ON TONIGHT GUY'S???
RP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2019, 02:43 AM   #663
Simple Fan
Let me talk to ya
 
Simple Fan's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,749
Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
It came on earlier today on YouTube
Simple Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2019, 02:45 AM   #664
Mr. Nerfect
 
Posts: 61,121
Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Mr. Nerfect makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Hogan killed WCW, Bischoff killed WCW, Nash killed WCW, Russo killed WCW, three hours killed WCW, Thunder killed WCW — take your pick.
Mr. Nerfect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2019, 11:04 AM   #665
Evil Vito
President of Freedonia
 
Evil Vito's Avatar
 
Posts: 58,215
Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
WCW killed WCW
Evil Vito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2019, 11:57 AM   #666
erickman
king of sucks
 
Posts: 4,414
erickman puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)erickman puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)erickman puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)erickman puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)erickman puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)erickman puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)erickman puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)erickman puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)erickman puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple Fan View Post
It came on earlier today on YouTube
an scot steiner is part of it
erickman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2019, 10:50 PM   #667
Emperor Smeat
Former TPWW Royalty
 
Emperor Smeat's Avatar
 
Posts: 66,604
Emperor Smeat makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Emperor Smeat makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Emperor Smeat makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Emperor Smeat makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Emperor Smeat makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Emperor Smeat makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Emperor Smeat makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Emperor Smeat makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Emperor Smeat makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Emperor Smeat makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Emperor Smeat makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Emperor Smeat makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Emperor Smeat makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Baring a NJPW-AEW partnership forming, seems the odds of Ibushi showing up at a future AEW event is even lower than before.

He hinted in a recent interview that he wants to retire in NJPW and his current contract with them was the last decision he made for his career.
Emperor Smeat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2019, 12:24 AM   #668
Fignuts
Hey Mister!
 
Fignuts's Avatar
 
Posts: 54,947
Fignuts makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Fignuts makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Fignuts makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Fignuts makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Fignuts makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Fignuts makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Fignuts makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Fignuts makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Fignuts makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Fignuts makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Fignuts makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Fignuts makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Fignuts makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Shit well in that case I’m calling Ibushi as G-1 winner right now.
Fignuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2019, 08:55 AM   #669
Evil Vito
President of Freedonia
 
Evil Vito's Avatar
 
Posts: 58,215
Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Sounds like Undertaker's been pulled from Starrcast

Vince probably threw another guaranteed deal at him
Evil Vito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2019, 09:45 AM   #670
Ultra Mantis
Grim Fandango
 
Ultra Mantis's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,192
Ultra Mantis makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Ultra Mantis makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Ultra Mantis makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Ultra Mantis makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Ultra Mantis makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Ultra Mantis makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Ultra Mantis makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Ultra Mantis makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Ultra Mantis makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Ultra Mantis makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Ultra Mantis makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Ultra Mantis makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Ultra Mantis makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Yeah Ibushi said he had a big money offer from AEW to work there exclusively and they wanted him to move to the US permanently (bear in mind his English is practically non existent, to the point he brought over a translator when he was in WWE). Weirdly this seems to be what has made him decide to commit to New Japan instead, he thought going to AEW would be the end of his career as he would never be able to go back to Japan and be a top guy. He said it really made him realise that he doesn't care about money at all, he just wants to be able to put on his best work and feels he can only do that in New Japan.
Last edited by Ultra Mantis; 02-21-2019 at 03:33 PM.
Ultra Mantis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2019, 02:16 PM   #671
slik
Trickster Demon
 
slik's Avatar
 
Posts: 59,781
slik makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)slik makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)slik makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)slik makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)slik makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)slik makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)slik makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)slik makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)slik makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)slik makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)slik makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)slik makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)slik makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Taker's info is listed again on Starrcast
slik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2019, 03:36 PM   #672
Evil Vito
President of Freedonia
 
Evil Vito's Avatar
 
Posts: 58,215
Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Evil Vito makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
AEW has put up FB/Instagram posts about Sonny Kiss. No real surprise but loads of people in the comments section are now revealing themselves to be homophobic pricks who now aren't gonna watch the show because "eww, gay wrestler"
Evil Vito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2019, 10:42 PM   #673
thecc
Polyam cult member #420
 
thecc's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,966
thecc is good (20,000+)thecc is good (20,000+)thecc is good (20,000+)thecc is good (20,000+)thecc is good (20,000+)thecc is good (20,000+)thecc is good (20,000+)thecc is good (20,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conspiracy Victim Vito View Post
AEW has put up FB/Instagram posts about Sonny Kiss. No real surprise but loads of people in the comments section are now revealing themselves to be homophobic pricks who now aren't gonna watch the show because "eww, gay wrestler"
Bullet clubalos being shitty. *gasp* I'm shocked.
thecc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2019, 01:28 AM   #674
Emperor Smeat
Former TPWW Royalty
 
Emperor Smeat's Avatar
 
Posts: 66,604
Emperor Smeat makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Emperor Smeat makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Emperor Smeat makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Emperor Smeat makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Emperor Smeat makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Emperor Smeat makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Emperor Smeat makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Emperor Smeat makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Emperor Smeat makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Emperor Smeat makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Emperor Smeat makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Emperor Smeat makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Emperor Smeat makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
According to the Observer, there are at least 3 networks seriously interested in signing a tv deal with AEW and more networks have become interested due to the buzz generated from Double or Nothing's ticket sales.

In terms of if AEW could beat RAW on its first week, Meltzer stated only 1 of the 3 potential networks could possibly pull that off.
Emperor Smeat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2019, 03:03 AM   #675
Bad News Gertner
Best Poster
 
Bad News Gertner's Avatar
 
Posts: 56,951
Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 View Post
If you take Eric Bischoff at his word, which I do cause his story hasn't changed in almost 20 years, and he did try to buy it for further proof, but he said WCW wasn't really losing that much money.

When the merger happened they classified WCW as "other" with a bunch of other things at Turner that were losing money also, with the intent of unless I adding all of it to make the merger look good.

WCW didn't go out of business like ECW did where they had to declare bankruptcy, AOL/Time Warner just didn't want wrestling in their portfolio so they pulled the TV deal and took nothing for it.

They could have sold WCW for $45 Million with its current TV deals, and instead they cancelled the TV deals and sold it to Vince instead for $40 Million less.

They were willing to lose all the ad revenue that Nitro and Thunder brought, and an additional $40 Million instead of airing wrestling. Plus they still had to keep paying the full contract of every single wrestler who didn't take a buyout so they could go work for Vince.

Vince only took on like 6 contracts when he bought WCW, Booker T, Chavo, 2 other really low paying guys, I think Hurricane might have been one, and 2 of them were Torrie and Stacy who weren't making crap either. Everybody else in the Invasion got a lump sum buyout from AOL/Time Warner, so that is also more money they gave away just to get rid of wrestling.

Hogan, Hall, Nash, Goldberg, Sting, Flair, Mysterio, Steiner, Savage, Mr Perfect, those guys all sat at home getting paid their full amount until their contracts expired.
Vince took on a lot more than 6 contracts.
Bad News Gertner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2019, 03:32 AM   #676
SlickyTrickyDamon
Quark is Less Impressed.
 
SlickyTrickyDamon's Avatar
 
Posts: 38,371
SlickyTrickyDamon makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
He had people under contract who didn't even show up on TV like Above Average Mike Sanders.
SlickyTrickyDamon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2019, 03:38 AM   #677
slik
Trickster Demon
 
slik's Avatar
 
Posts: 59,781
slik makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)slik makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)slik makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)slik makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)slik makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)slik makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)slik makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)slik makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)slik makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)slik makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)slik makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)slik makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)slik makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)









slik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2019, 12:18 PM   #678
Bad News Gertner
Best Poster
 
Bad News Gertner's Avatar
 
Posts: 56,951
Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon View Post
He had people under contract who didn't even show up on TV like Above Average Mike Sanders.
Off the top of my head, Buff Bagwell, Booker T, Palumbo and O'Haire, Kanyon, Shawn Stasiak, Torrie Wilson, Stacy Keibler, Nick Patrick, Charles Robinson, Mickey Jay (I think) Mike Awesome, Chavo, Helms, Kaz Hayashi, Elix Skipper, Johnny the Bull, DDP, Mike Sanders, Kidman, Lance Storm.

I'm sure there's more that I'm missing.
Last edited by Bad News Gertner; 02-22-2019 at 12:35 PM.
Bad News Gertner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2019, 12:29 PM   #679
Simple Fan
Let me talk to ya
 
Simple Fan's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,749
Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Simple Fan makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Also Arn Anderson and Mark Madden for a bit.
Simple Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2019, 12:35 PM   #680
Bad News Gertner
Best Poster
 
Bad News Gertner's Avatar
 
Posts: 56,951
Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Bad News Gertner makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Scott Hudson
Bad News Gertner is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 17 of 403 « First 78910111213141516 17 1819202122232425262767117 Last »

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:35 AM.

Forums Home - TPWW - Archive - Top

Powered by vBulletin®