Ratings Thread

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I way prefer roided up Hogan

[Anybody Thrilla]

Well, it was a very, very good Smackdown. They earned it.

[Sting Fan]

I must admit I only really watch Smackdown nowadays, Raw feels so forced and theres not really anyone there I want to watch.

So does the Raw ratings plummeting bring back Vince or HHH? Quite excited for HHH to come in completely out pof left field, squash all before him and unite all the titles in Raw before moving onto Smackdown and ending this version of the brand split. Mainly for the internet backlash, partially for the fact it might speed up WWE decline.

[unclebrown]

HHH will come back at the Rumble and cost Rollins a chance to win the title. The seeds are all planted.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Destor I dont want to derail the circle jerk but man do those number suck

Yeah, I was about to say, this has more to do with RAW being down than SmackDown being up.

[A.J.K]

Broken Hardy would be the man to save Raw.

[KIRA]

Originally Posted by Noid Yeah, I was about to say, this has more to do with RAW being down than SmackDown being up.

A win is a win.

Stop trying to ruin this with facts and context

[slik]

Raw ratings take a tumble from last week's high...

credit - wrestlingobserver WWE numbers fell from last week, which isn't a story because the Monday after Royal Rumble is likely to be one of the two or three highest rated shows of the year. But what was a surprise was how far they tumbled, as last night's show averaged 3.10 million viewers. To put that number into perspective, only five shows in 2016 outside of football season were lower. The three hours were: 8 p.m. 3.34 million viewers 9 p.m. 3.17 million viewers 10 p.m. 2.84 million viewers

[#BROKEN Hasney]

[The CyNick]

For WWE and USA the key is comparing what WWE drives in terms of viewers vs the rest of USA.

Most important for WWE is how much higher their bar is than the rest of top 25 cable. This ensures WWE will have multiple strong offers when renewal talks happen.

These points are usually glossed over by the wrestling bloggers and their disciples on forums like this this one.

[BigCrippyZ]

Lol... Top 25 reflects average U.S. national ratings from over a year ago and excludes broadcast and premium networks.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by BigCrippyZ Lol... Top 25 reflects average U.S. national ratings from over a year ago and excludes broadcast and premium networks.

It compares the same time period as RAW and SDL ratings. Of course broadcast would be excluded from cable ratings because they are different animals.

[BigCrippyZ]

Originally Posted by The CyNick It compares the same time period as RAW and SDL ratings. Of course broadcast would be excluded from cable ratings because they are different animals.

Not if you want a true objective picture and valuation. I do audits and valuations on music, film and television IP all the time in order to negotiate rights deals and/or sales contracts. They have the numbers and are excluding them for a reason but it's not because "they are different animals."

Vince and his family might think or want to believe that "they are different animals" so it doesn't matter, but I can guarantee you that when USA or any other network does an audit to determine a valuation for the next TV rights deal with WWE, it will absolutely include everything missing in that data.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by BigCrippyZ Not if you want a true objective picture and valuation. I do audits and valuations on music, film and television IP all the time in order to negotiate rights deals and/or sales contracts. They have the numbers and are excluding them for a reason but it's not because "they are different animals." Vince and his family might think or want to believe that "they are different animals" so it doesn't matter, but I can guarantee you that when USA or any other network does an audit to determine a valuation for the next TV rights deal with WWE, it will absolutely include everything missing in that data.

You must not be paying attention to these negotiations.

If your statement is Network TV rights fees are generally higher than cable, you would be correct, because they draw a larger audience. Most people know that.

When it comes to ratings, you don't see it listed as every TV show ranked against one another. Ratings are ranked with cable separated from Network. Because it's apples and oranges.

WWE could negotiate with the major networks, but the networks would look at WWEs numbers and likely take a pass. WWE we assume will be negotiating with USA and other cable outlets. USA is not worried about their standing vs say ABC, but they are worried about their standing vs ESPN. The negotiations will centre around what WWE will do for USAs overall standing vs other cable networks. If for example, WWEs five hours of content pulls USAs weekly average over the top 25 average, then that puts WWE in a good position. Likewise a cable network below the average will look at WWEs numbers and think this might be a way to get them above the industry average. Of course it comes down to a numbers game of how much are those additional eyeballs worth. In the Attitude Era, not much, because the WWE was seen in a more negative light. Now with the clean up of the product, you have advertisers lining up to be involved with WWE, which will raise their value even more as more can be charged for ad time.

I'm happy to continue to school you on how the industry works if you'd like to PM me.

[Destor]

Cynik wants this to go to PM becuase he doesnt want to get burried in public

[BigCrippyZ]

Originally Posted by The CyNick You must not be paying attention to these negotiations. If your statement is Network TV rights fees are generally higher than cable, you would be correct, because they draw a larger audience. Most people know that. When it comes to ratings, you don't see it listed as every TV show ranked against one another. Ratings are ranked with cable separated from Network. Because it's apples and oranges. WWE could negotiate with the major networks, but the networks would look at WWEs numbers and likely take a pass. WWE we assume will be negotiating with USA and other cable outlets. USA is not worried about their standing vs say ABC, but they are worried about their standing vs ESPN. The negotiations will centre around what WWE will do for USAs overall standing vs other cable networks. If for example, WWEs five hours of content pulls USAs weekly average over the top 25 average, then that puts WWE in a good position. Likewise a cable network below the average will look at WWEs numbers and think this might be a way to get them above the industry average. Of course it comes down to a numbers game of how much are those additional eyeballs worth. In the Attitude Era, not much, because the biggest WWE was seen in a more negative light. Now with the clean up of the product, you have advertisers lining up to be involved with WWE, which will raise their value even more as more can be charged for ad dollars. I'm happy to continue to school you on how the industry works if you'd like to PM me.

I'm not talking about how the ratings industry works, I understand how it works.

I'm talking about how the auditing and valuation of IP works when it comes to negotiating rights deals, which you clearly know nothing about.

I guarantee you that USA or any other potential network that might want WWE's TV rights, whether it's cable, broadcast, doesn't matter... when determining valuation of WWE's TV rights deal (what they should pay WWE) they will look and compare WWE's ratings with more than just other shows/networks in whichever format (whether they're broadcast, cable, etc.) they compete with. They will absolutely compare WWE's ratings with ALL networks, whether broadcast, cable, whatever. Not only will USA or any other network that offers for WWE's TV rights, require WWE to submit their own audit and expect to see WWE's ratings in comparison with ALL networks in WWE's own audit that they will submit, but they will also require WWE to consent and allow the network to perform their own audit (either internally and/or with an outside independent auditor) that will include a comparison in WWE's ratings with ALL networks. Without those comparisons, you won't get a true and accurate valuation of WWE's television rights.

If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that has been and will continue to be the case in the future, not just for WWE, but for any rights deals for any television shows.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Destor Cynik wants this to go to PM becuase he doesnt want to get burried in public

I'm happy to debate this in public. Anyone who is objective will see I'm right.

[BigCrippyZ]

Originally Posted by The CyNick I'm happy to debate this in public. Anyone who is objective will see I'm right.

If you were objective, you would understand that in determining a true, accurate and independent valuation of WWE's television rights, comparing WWE's ratings vs. ALL networks and not just cable is vitally important. As an attorney who works alongside those same type of folks everyday, I can assure you that the CPAs and attorneys and the execs at USA and all the other networks do. That's why they have those jobs.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by BigCrippyZ I'm not talking about how the ratings industry works, I understand how it works. I'm talking about how the auditing and valuation of IP works when it comes to negotiating rights deals, which you clearly know nothing about. I guarantee you that USA or any other potential network that might want WWE's TV rights, whether it's cable, broadcast, doesn't matter... when determining valuation of WWE's TV rights deal (what they should pay WWE) they will look and compare WWE's ratings with more than just other shows/networks in whichever format (whether they're broadcast, cable, etc.) they compete with. They will absolutely compare WWE's ratings with ALL networks, whether broadcast, cable, whatever. Not only will USA or any other network that offers for WWE's TV rights, require WWE to submit their own audit and expect to see WWE's ratings in comparison with ALL networks in WWE's own audit that they will submit, but they will also require WWE to consent and allow the network to perform their own audit (either internally and/or with an outside independent auditor) that will include a comparison in WWE's ratings with ALL networks. Without those comparisons, you won't get a true and accurate valuation of WWE's television rights. If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that has been and will continue to be the case in the future, not just for WWE, but for any rights deals for any television shows.

You're making it sound more complicated than it is, and you buried the lead, which is ratings are measured cable vs cable and Network vs Network. You made the comment that WWE was lol because they didn't include Network numbers in their chart. But that's how ratings are compared in the industry. It seems like after reading my post and getting educated, you realized your error and went on a rant about irrelevant information.

I also find it funny that you seem to think WWE owns their TV rating information, when in reality is owned by a third party, and anyone with access to the Internet can find the data you were taking about. Pretty interesting insight from an insider though.

[#1-norm-fan]

Originally Posted by The CyNick I'm not above lying to make it look like I know what I'm talking about.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by BigCrippyZ If you were objective, you would understand that in determining a true, accurate and independent valuation of WWE's television rights, comparing WWE's ratings vs. ALL networks and not just cable is vitally important. As an attorney who works alongside those same type of folks everyday, I can assure you that the CPAs and attorneys and the execs at USA and all the other networks do. That's why they have those jobs.

The chart didn't say we're 90% higher than the average, therefore we get $100M more per year. It just compared their cable TV properties vs USAs CABLE TV PROPERTIES and then compared that to ALL CABLE TV PROPERTIES. This resulted in you going lol. Because you didn't understand how TV shows are measured.

[The CyNick]

Look, it's a guy who only exists because I exist.

[BigCrippyZ]

Originally Posted by The CyNick You're making it sound more complicated than it is, and you buried the lead, which is ratings are measured cable vs cable and Network vs Network. You made the comment that WWE was lol because they didn't include Network numbers in their chart. But that's how ratings are compared in the industry. It seems like after reading my post and getting educated, you realized your error and went on a rant about irrelevant information. I also find it funny that you seem to think WWE owns their TV rating information, when in reality is owned by a third party, and anyone with access to the Internet can find the data you were taking about. Pretty interesting insight from an insider though.

Way to miss the point. If you think that negotiating TV rights fees is simple, you're dumber than you seem.

I realize that WWE doesn't own their TV rating info, but anyone who negotiates with WWE for TV rights will expect WWE to present an audit and summary report with info of all of their TV ratings in comparison to all , production costs and more. Then the networks will perform an independent audit as well which WWE will have to consent to.

In performing an audit to determine valuation of WWE's TV rights, USA won't care how ratings are measured and presented to the public. They'll take the ratings data and use their own index and formula for determining valuation of WWE TV rights based on WWE's ratings in comparison to ratings of ALL other shows/networks as well as numerous other factors.

All the ratings data show is how WWE did vs other shows/networks. That's not the same as utilizing the ratings data in conjunction with other data and factors in order to determine a valuation of WWE's TV rights. The fact that you don't understand this concept is proof you don't know what you're talking about.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Ratings? What do we got ova here? A cuppa...



NERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRDS!

[BigCrippyZ]

Originally Posted by The CyNick The chart didn't say we're 90% higher than the average, therefore we get $100M more per year. It just compared their cable TV properties vs USAs CABLE TV PROPERTIES and then compared that to ALL CABLE TV PROPERTIES. This resulted in you going lol. Because you didn't understand how TV shows are measured.

I understand how TV shows are measured. That's not the issue here.

What you don't seem to understand is how and why USA will absolutely compare WWE's ratings to ALL other shows/networks and why WWE leaving out critical ratings data doesn't show the whole picture of WWE's TV rights valuation which is all USA and WWE really care about.

I wasn't saying LOL WWE ratings are even worse than this chart shows because they're leaving out ratings info. The chart itself is LOL because it leaves out ratings info critical to WWE's financial health. WWE business affairs folks know it and USA and any other networks know it.

[Ruien]

Do you people care about the rating Arrow or whatever other shows you watch? Why does this matter so much to people? Serious questions.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

TV shows like that can get cancelled in the rating suck so they are more important. WWE makes too much money for the ratings to really matter until TV contract and it has nothing to do with us as it won't be cancelled.

[#1-norm-fan]

Originally Posted by BigCrippyZ The fact that you don't understand this concept is proof you don't know what you're talking about.

Another pretty solid piece of evidence...

Originally Posted by The CyNick I'm not above lying to make it look like I know what I'm talking about.

Feel like I need to clarify that this isn't me doing that lame thing where you edit someone's post to show what you think they're REALLY saying. That is an actual quote from another time when he got caught bullshitting. The guy basically summed up his entire gimmick for everyone to see just in case someone still took him seriously. lol

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by BigCrippyZ Way to miss the point. If you think that negotiating TV rights fees is simple, you're dumber than you seem. I realize that WWE doesn't own their TV rating info, but anyone who negotiates with WWE for TV rights will expect WWE to present an audit and summary report with info of all of their TV ratings in comparison to all , production costs and more. Then the networks will perform an independent audit as well which WWE will have to consent to. In performing an audit to determine valuation of WWE's TV rights, USA won't care how ratings are measured and presented to the public. They'll take the ratings data and use their own index and formula for determining valuation of WWE TV rights based on WWE's ratings in comparison to ratings of ALL other shows/networks as well as numerous other factors. All the ratings data show is how WWE did vs other shows/networks. That's not the same as utilizing the ratings data in conjunction with other data and factors in order to determine a valuation of WWE's TV rights. The fact that you don't understand this concept is proof you don't know what you're talking about.

You must be a lawyer, because you're making something simple very complicated. USA doesn't care what production costs WWE has unless WWE is trying to negotiate that USA pay for part or all of production. Then sure, you need to do a deep dive into costs. But you keep moving the goal posts. First it was lol at WWE for showing cable ratings, then it was they need to submit their "ratings audit", which isn't a real thing, now you're clutching on to production costs.

Put everything else aside, just explain why it's lol for WWE to show a slide comparing their cable properties to other cable properties. That's all I need to hear about.

[BigCrippyZ]

Originally Posted by Ruien Do you people care about the rating Arrow or whatever other shows you watch? Why does this matter so much to people? Serious questions.

If it's a show I like and want to see continue then yes, I'll try and keep up with the ratings.

I don't really follow WWE's ratings though and only learn about the ratings themselves through discussions on here.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Ruien Do you people care about the rating Arrow or whatever other shows you watch? Why does this matter so much to people? Serious questions.

I enjoyed WWE far more after I stopped concerning myself with their weekly ratings. My role in this whole thing is to help the uneducated learn about how WWE can have declining ratings and still be in a great position to negotiate rights fees.

[Destor]

Originally Posted by The CyNick I'm happy to debate this in public. Anyone who is objective will see I'm right.

LOL


Anyone who is objective will see you're right? You just created a falicy. If you go into the argument with the pretense you cant be wrong you then are not objective. Therefor you yourself can not define right or wrong.

[Simple Fan]

CyNick has the worst comprehension. Also asking people to look at his post objectively while his post are completely subjective is kind of funny.

[#1-norm-fan]

Besides, we all know ratings don't matter. Social media is where it's at! (Where WWE is getting DUMMIED by YouTube sensation PewDiePie!)

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan Another pretty solid piece of evidence... Feel like I need to clarify that this isn't me doing that lame thing where you edit someone's post to show what you think they're REALLY saying. That is an actual quote from another time when he got caught bullshitting. The guy basically summed up his entire gimmick for everyone to see just in case someone still took him seriously. lol

You understand why The Rock was never arrested for threatening to sodomize someone with a shoe, right?

That quote you love to use was a joke, but not shockingly, you failed to grasp that.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Destor LOL Anyone who is objective will see you're right? You just created a falicy. If you go into the argument with the pretense you cant be wrong you then are not objective. Therefor you yourself can not define right or wrong.

When it comes to this stuff, I'm always right. People who are objective will back me up. People who live solely to disagree with me, will say otherwise. It's up to you to decide what's right.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan Besides, we all know ratings don't matter. Social media is where it's at! (Where WWE is getting DUMMIED by YouTube sensation PewDiePie!)

I have no idea what that is, but I'm glad you found something that gives you joy.

Money is all that matters. WWE just posted their best revenue year ever. I'm not sure what that thing you mentioned is worth.

[Destor]

Originally Posted by The CyNick When it comes to this stuff, I'm always right. People who are objective will back me up. People who live solely to disagree with me, will say otherwise. It's up to you to decide what's right.

Easily the most ignorant post of all time

[Destor]

Wait. That was bait. Nvrmnd. Well played. Troll's gonna troll.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Snowday-a-mania.

Neeeeeeeeerds