Ratings Thread

[Mr. Nerfect]

Like, with the move to USA weeks before AEW debuted on TNT, was that because they "wanted to get the jump" as Meltzer says? Or was it because Triple H wanted to debut unopposed so WWE has got a figure to shop around the next time they want to get something on a network. We know that ~1 million people will tune in to a debuting WWE wrestling program with minimal promotion.

If they debuted at the same time then you've got the fresh AEW beating the fresh NXT, which is a slightly different story to the fresh AEW beating NXT in its third week. It's not "good," but it's preferable to have that tiny bit of distance. I think the story that WWE wanted to get NXT into that slot so that no one would be watching AEW is just a bit naive with some wishful projection.

But then again, this is WWE, and they prove themselves to be fucking idiots all the time. That being said, this does seem to be a Triple H project as much as anything has been, and while I'm not the biggest Triple H defender in the world -- and am skeptical that he would run the main roster WWE like he does NXT -- this isn't main roster WWE and his ego is invested in winning and winning means being different.

If AEW falters and becomes TNA 2.0, then my crazy hope is that Triple H proves he can run wrestling to Vince and to shareholders and they allow their different shows to be handled in different ways as Vince inevitably needs to start stepping back. I know people think it will never happen, but it's got to at some point, and the dude's got to be tired. If Triple H can handle NXT, maybe Vince steps back off Raw and lets Triple H handle that in a supervisory position as Heyman books. I dunno, that's all I'm left with.

[BigCrippyZ]

The issue though isn't who has the advantage or who's trying harder or hardest. If it was, just based on pure money alone WWE has the clear advantage and WWE is spending way more money than AEW. The issue is which promotion is most effectively working to actually consistently put on quality shows and build for the future.

WWE simply isn't doing that, and it's not because NXT is necessarily bad, but simply because NXT at the end of the day is meaningless. Nothing that happens in NXT matters because NXT is a stepping stone to the main roster or the road to elsewhere/indies for the talent. That's because everything that happens or that gets successfully built up or over in NXT becomes meaningless when the talent gets called up to Raw or SD, or they eventually get released to go elsewhere.

That's why I don't give a shit about WWE, including NXT. It's not because AEW is "cool" currently, and thus WWE is a "heel" promotion. With rare exception, I wasn't really watching any WWE product prior to AEW, including NXT, and I'm likely watching even less now, if that's even possible. Meanwhile, watching AEW, at least for the time being, while not perfect or always great, feels easy, different, and fresh, and I don't feel like it's meaningless or a waste of time, or that I'm being treated like an idiot by the talent or the folks in charge.

Comparing WWE (NXT included) to AEW however, outside of Jericho, Cody, Moxley, (a little bit about) Pac, and Jake Swagger/Hager (who is not actually listed on their roster), I have no clue who most of the AEW talent is. Still, they're actually building guys up to be potential future main eventers/title contenders. MJF, Omega, Page, Darby Allen, have all been made to look like potential future main eventers who can compete with the main event guy's that I do know more about. They've also actually all got some character development and differences too.

The only way WWE makes any legit long term changes is if WWE starts to get slaughtered and lose money and viewers to their competition, or, if Vince dies and no one who shares his vision of what is supposed to happen creatively on the main roster is allowed to take over. Neither of which are likely to happen based on who he's surrounded himself with, (yes men and folks who share/agree with his vision,) and thus who will likely be chosen to replace him.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by BigCrippyZ The issue though isn't who has the advantage or who's trying harder or hardest. If it was, just based on pure money alone WWE has the clear advantage and WWE is spending way more money than AEW. The issue is which promotion is most effectively working to actually consistently put on quality shows and build for the future. WWE simply isn't doing that, and it's not because NXT is necessarily bad, but simply because NXT at the end of the day is meaningless. Nothing that happens in NXT matters because NXT is a stepping stone to the main roster or the road to elsewhere/indies for the talent. That's because everything that happens or that gets successfully built up or over in NXT becomes meaningless when the talent gets called up to Raw or SD, or they eventually get released to go elsewhere. That's why I don't give a shit about WWE, including NXT. It's not because AEW is "cool" currently, and thus WWE is a "heel" promotion. With rare exception, I wasn't really watching any WWE product prior to AEW, including NXT, and I'm likely watching even less now, if that's even possible. Meanwhile, watching AEW, at least for the time being, while not perfect or always great, feels easy, different, and fresh, and I don't feel like it's meaningless or a waste of time, or that I'm being treated like an idiot by the talent or the folks in charge. Comparing WWE (NXT included) to AEW however, outside of Jericho, Cody, Moxley, (a little bit about) Pac, and Jake Swagger/Hager (who is not actually listed on their roster), I have no clue who most of the AEW talent is. Still, they're actually building guys up to be potential future main eventers/title contenders. MJF, Omega, Page, Darby Allen, have all been made to look like potential future main eventers who can compete with the main event guy's that I do know more about. They've also actually all got some character development and differences too. The only way WWE makes any legit long term changes is if WWE starts to get slaughtered and lose money and viewers to their competition, or, if Vince dies and no one who shares his vision of what is supposed to happen creatively on the main roster is allowed to take over. Neither of which are likely to happen based on who he's surrounded himself with, (yes men and folks who share/agree with his vision,) and thus who will likely be chosen to replace him.

I wouldn't have disagreed before this AEW/NXT thing started. I'm on record here basically saying "Who cares? They're going to ruin her anyway" when people were speculating on what Asuka was going to do on the main roster. But that dynamic changes somewhat now that NXT is a USA Network property.

You might be right about the replacing of Vince. I'm probably smoking some good shit to think that Triple H running NXT is an audition/proving ground. But it might be. I mean, people were predicting Vince's fingerprints all over NXT when it was first confirmed for USA and that didn't happen, because it doesn't make sense. There seems to be some sliver of common sense coming out of that little building in Full Sail.

When it comes to promotion, I just think that the subtle approach by NXT early on, at least, has been intentional. They want people to slowly discover it. They want to be able to pump up promotion later. If they went full speed into this, they are still going to get beaten by AEW early on, but there's also nowhere to go. That's my point with this. I think people who are rubbing their hands at AEW busting ass out the gate and beating NXT when they're hot and NXT is not are kind of sleeping on just how much NXT is saving -- big stars coming in, big promotion, crossover angles, big things happening on the show itself.

[BigCrippyZ]

As I don't really ever watch it, I'm in no position to question the quality of NXT. By all accounts, it's a solid to really good weekly show.

For the sake of argument, let's say you're right. HHH is and will remain, for the immediately foreseeable future, in charge of NXT. Let's also say HHH is slow playing this thing and is simply waiting for the right time to go all out for NXT, and/or until AEW has peaked. Why, and to what end?

If HHH were to bring in bigger WWE stars like Cena, Rollins, Lesnar, Bryan or others, to compete in NXT, what's the plan? Let's say those big stars come to NXT to find out or prove they can still compete with the best of the next generation of young talent. Then what?

You're either going to shit on the NXT talent by having them lose to the bigger stars, or you're going to shit on your company's biggest stars by having them lose to guys on your B or C level show, or, you can have a meaningless draw that basically means/does nothing. Also, good luck having Vince allow HHH to stay in charge of an NXT that features one or more of his biggest stars, at least for long, let alone having NXT talent go over his bigger Raw/SD stars.

Let's say HHH gets the young NXT talent over without bringing in any bigger WWE talent. Then what? Well, Vince either brings the NXT talent up to Raw or SD and makes the talent meaningless and thus AEW likely keeps competing with or beating NXT. Or NXT does so well that it regularly beats AEW and thus also competes/beats with Raw and SD. Good luck having Vince keep HHH in charge of an NXT show that either, continues to struggle with AEW, or an NXT that regularly competes or beats Raw or SD, even if it's beating AEW in the process.

[Emperor Smeat]

Good and bad news regarding week 3 of the AEW vs NXT war.

Good news was AEW managed to improve from #8 to #5 in terms of ranking this week although it did suffer a small decline of around 4k viewers since this week was 1.014 million overall.

Bad news was NXT dropped in rankings from #27 to #30 and suffered another sizeable decline of 78k viewers since this week was 712k overall.

In terms of key demo, AEW got a 0.44 and NXT got a 0.20.

Also in terms of the old people demo where NXT has held the advantage, AEW closed the gap to just 0.02 of a point (0.35 for NXT vs. 0.33 for AEW). Last week it was 0.40 vs 0.30 in favor of NXT.

[Droford]

I wonder if USA decides to back out of NXT if the ratings continue to drop

[slik]

2.44 million is the average for SD week 3

[slik]

Here is how all the big stuff compared for the week:


RAW: 2.28 million
18-34: .48
18-49: .74


AEW: 1.01 million
18-34: .29
18-49: .44


NXT: 720 thousand
18-34: .14
18-49: .20


Smackdown: 2.44 million
18-34: .55
18-49: .75

[slik]

SD on FOX:


week 1 - 3.89

week 2 - 2.90

week 3 - 2.44

[Emperor Smeat]

SD is now under the boost average of 2.5 million Meltzer predicted the show would get due to FOX's higher status than USA Network but still above the 2.2 million level that FOX considers to be their floor to remain happy.

Only real saving grace is SD still kept the top spot for the 18-34 demo but not at the numbers needed to make up for the weaker ad rates.

[Jordan]

Well they will likely fall below 2.2 within two weeks.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I expected them to sit at 2.5. This really does suggest that WWE is losing its appeal faster than thought.

[Emperor Smeat]

According to the Observer, seems FOX might have been lowering their expectations for Smackdown these past few weeks.

Went going into the new tv deal of FOX potentially expecting in the 3 million range as an average to being happy with a 2.2 million as a floor average 2 weeks into SD's debut to now a potential 1.7 million as the floor for FOX to stay happy.

When they get to 1.7 million viewers I'd start thinking about it. FOX right now is very strong on this project and think it's a winner. https://t.co/TyAbsOVpW9

— Dave Meltzer (@davemeltzerWON) October 19, 2019

Also SD's numbers looks even worse compared to what aired during the same week last year.

Last Man Standing was at the 8est time slot this time last fall and drew a 1.8 in the 18-40 demo and 8 million viewers total https://t.co/D2YkOvTrUs

— Trump eats boogers (@Arwood_Lucilath) October 19, 2019

[slik]

Live TV Ratings for RAW are in:

Hr 1 - 2.48
Hr 2 - 2.37
Hr 3 - 2.18

Avg - 2.34 million
(credit - showbuzzdaily)


Most Watched on YT:
Cain saves Rey - 1.9 million
Rusev goes berserk- 845k
Seth ve Humberto - 694k

[Emperor Smeat]

Bit surprised it actually went up considering the opposite usually happens the week after a RAW or Smackdown special episode.

Rare instance where the 3rd hour ended up being the reason it didn't have an overall drop since it was the only hour to do better than last week's Draft show.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm crediting this to Sin Cara and Shelton Benjamin.

[slik]

Live TV Ratings for AEW and NXT are in:

AEW - 963k
18 to 49 - .45
18 to 34 - .39

NXT - 698k
18 to 49 - .21
18 to 34 - .13

[Emperor Smeat]

Considering both shows were going up against the World Series and NBA season openers, those are not bad numbers overall.

Both shows also managed to improve in rankings which was great as well. Only real surprise was the big boost AEW got from the 18-34 demo and NXT not suffering a big drop in the 50+ demo like AEW did.

[xrodmuc316]

Originally Posted by Emperor Smeat Considering both shows were going up against the World Series and NBA season openers, those are not bad numbers overall. Both shows also managed to improve in rankings which was great as well. Only real surprise was the big boost AEW got from the 18-34 demo and NXT not suffering a big drop in the 50+ demo like AEW did.

I mean together they lost 500,000 people, to opening night of the NBA and the World Series. That's a pretty good sign for 2 new competing shows. That still means roughly 1.65 million fans picked wrestling over big sports leagues. That's a good showing I think.

[Triple A]

Kind of interesting: Dynamite is more popular than Raw in NYC in the 18-49 demo, according to Meltzer:

In a ratings note, and markets are different and all, but AEW has been beating Raw in 18-49 in New York even at the level it fell in weeks two and three.

[Jordan]

I really want know the calculation for AEW views throughout the week, replays and cord cutting apps and all. To me that info next to WWE's breakdown would be the most interesting info. I get that LIVE VIEWING is a bigger money prospect for ad sales but IDGAF about that. I want to know what the real difference is with viewers throughout the span of a week. I think that is reasonable.

[Emperor Smeat]

They've been averaging in the high 300k for the initial replay but if I had to guess, probably around 500k to 600k total for the combined extra viewership.

Smackdown's been averaging in the high 100ks for combined viewership post-FOX debut based on PWInsider's reports.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I’m more interested in how big the drops are. 5% and 2% are not that much different, but it does seem that AEW has the steeper declines. It will be interesting to see where both level out and then how NXT starts to build themselves up.

[Emperor Smeat]

Observer's Dave Meltzer had an interesting tidbit about the ratings for this week's shows plus last week's Smackdown and the costs associated with them.

Originally Posted by Observer Ratings can be confusing and misleading but as far as the key numbers to advertisers and normalized to be fair, based on the actual audience that has access to the show as opposed to making it unfair based on homes that don't even have the channel, these were the 18-49 ratings for this past week: UFC .47 Smackdown .77 Raw 1.01 Total Divas .17 NXT .28 AEW .61 As far as costs to the network for the episode: UFC $10 million Smackdown $4.02 million Raw $5.10 million Total Divas $400,000 NXT $588,000 AEW $500,000 plus a percentage of advertising points

Also thinks 1.6 million would be the best case scenario for Smackdown's viewership this week.

Originally Posted by Observer Regarding Smackdown tonight, between the night and the station, the only way they're topping 1.6 million viewers is if Hogan and Flair still have ratings juice after all of their recent appearances.

[Mr. Nerfect]

WWE cynicism aside, they are very good value.

[slik]

Live TV Ratings for #WWE #SmackDown are in:

888k viewers
(credit - showbuzzdaily)

Note - This episode aired on FS1 and not FOX

Most Watched on YT:
Brock Attacks I - 2.5 million
6-man tag - 1.1 million
Brock Attacks II - 831k

[Mr. Nerfect]

Oof. That is not a good number, regardless of where they are.

[Triple A]

lol...

[Emperor Smeat]

Even though the number has a built-in excuse, that should be a huge wake up call to WWE both in regards of what their future could look like if FOX ever kicks them off the main network and what they are currently doing for Smackdown hasn't been working.

[Triple A]

Sensing SmackDown gets like 2.1 million or below on FOX next week

[xrodmuc316]

I don't watch much tv, just streaming stuff. I don't know how prominent FS1 is in terms of availability (I had to look at my channel guide for the first time in at least 5 years), but if anything I think that low of a number helps WWE.

Fox now knows they can't stick a billion dollar show on FS1. They lose just too much value going from 2.5 on network to .88 on cable.

[Emperor Smeat]

Originally Posted by Triple A Sensing SmackDown gets like 2.1 million or below on FOX next week

That feels about right.

WWE's Saudi shows usually don't provide a notable ppv-bump and SD has weak momentum going in since last week's show was mostly boring.

[xrodmuc316]

Originally Posted by Emperor Smeat That feels about right. WWE's Saudi shows usually don't provide a notable ppv-bump and SD has weak momentum going in since last week's show was mostly boring.

They do the opposite, they drain any and all momentum.

Name 1 thing that has come out of any of these shows since the beginning.

They build up these shows like a PPV, but then book them like a house show in that they are completely inconsequential to anything good, just hurts the wrestlers long term who are buried in these stupid house shows.

[slik]

[slik]

WWE Backstage at #42 for Friday Night w/ 426k, a .14 in 18-34 and .08 in 18-49

[Emperor Smeat]

Not a good sign for Backstage since the first preview show from two weeks ago managed to generate 597k viewers.

Next week should be different since its the official debut and loaded with marque guests but also likely going to follow the same WWE trend where the week after drops big.

[Emperor Smeat]

Apparently WWE was expecting at least 2 million for last week's Smackdown even with the change from FOX to FS1 due to the World Series.

Originally Posted by WrestlingInc WWE officials were expecting Friday's SmackDown to do a similar number to what the show was doing on the USA Network before the move in early October, according to @Wrestlevotes. The final SmackDown USA episode on September 24 drew 2.099 million viewers. The September 17 episode, which was the post-Clash of Champions show, drew 2.064 million viewers and the September 10 episode drew 2.061 million viewers. This week's show on FS1 came nowhere near 2 million viewers.

[xrodmuc316]

Originally Posted by Emperor Smeat Not a good sign for Backstage since the first preview show from two weeks ago managed to generate 597k viewers. Next week should be different since its the official debut and loaded with marque guests but also likely going to follow the same WWE trend where the week after drops big.

Guess they should have paid Phil.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don’t see how a show with wrestlers talking about wrestling is going to do well when no one wants to watch the fucking wrestling.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Honestly, even if it’s a work, Vince should announce that he is stepping away from creative. That alone would alter the perception of WWE.