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Old 05-31-2022, 09:13 PM   #9841
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I’M NOT FIGHTING YOU, SEPH!
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Old 05-31-2022, 09:27 PM   #9842
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not sure if seph and fan have heat or if seph saw a zinger and took it
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Old 05-31-2022, 09:29 PM   #9843
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not sure if seph and fan have heat or if seph saw a zinger and took it
Definitely the latter.

That and when I see a pot I can't help but stir it.
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Old 05-31-2022, 09:36 PM   #9844
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Lol I answered Destor in rep before seeing that post. I went “shit stirrer” over “pot stirrer” but still... Nice.
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Old 05-31-2022, 09:40 PM   #9845
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tbf the contents of the pot I'm stirring are most likely shit
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Old 05-31-2022, 09:56 PM   #9846
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So I just saw something about why MJF is so upset over the money that made me turn my head. No idea if it's true, but one of the examples that was given is that Mark Henry makes somewhere in the neighborhood of 3-4 times what MJF does and thats AFTER the one raise they did give MJF at one point.

Edit: Man if some of these numbers this dirty sheet is talking about are true I'd be PISSED AF if I was him too. They are saying MJF makes somewhere in the 250k range. There are quite a few guys there making in the millions, some of them apparently as high as 5 million (Punk and Bryan, think they said Mox too). That's fully 20 times what MJF is making. That's nuts.
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Old 05-31-2022, 10:14 PM   #9847
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MJF coming off the indies, with no name and no value outside of what they intended to build with him, wasnt making any real money. his first contract lets says its 80k. thats the first garunteed money he's ever had. so he gets over. they bump him to 250k. if he's actually smart he should be able to see the upward momentum. if plays his cards right and becomes truly indispensable then in time, say 5 years after they with his key role helping to elevate the product, he's holding down real money he can start putting away.

he's an important act for the quality of the show. but if we're talking return on investment he's got some ways to go to be pulling money like former wwfs guys are pulling. and for obvious reasons.

now he puts the office in a real tough spot. they cant pay the entire roster 5mill/a. the money isnt there to spend what theyre spending as is. this company is losing money afterall. so if they pay MJF they have nothing to barter with when contracts come up with the rest of the card.

he's made a scenario where they basically cant give him what he wants. it will cost them way too much.
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Old 05-31-2022, 10:16 PM   #9848
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should mark henry have a fat contract? fuck no. if you make a bad deal with one guy are you obligated to make bad deals with everyone else? MJF thinks so. and if they make one with him they really will have to make bad deals with everyone.
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Old 05-31-2022, 10:18 PM   #9849
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with how public he's made this you cant pay him. you need to cut him loose
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Old 05-31-2022, 10:26 PM   #9850
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I don't think he should be pulling money like the top guys, don't get me wrong. Def not 5 mill. But considering Henry supposedly makes 800k, MJF should be making a mill or so. Yeah it puts them in a tough spot but this guy is the top heel in the company and I imagine one of their biggest draws (using that term loosely because wrestling in general doesnt draw anymore). He gets way more media attention than others do and his name recognition is going up faster too.

Def don't give him the big money yet though, no way. Has to be a realistic compromise that is much closer to what he makes now than the number the top guys are at. Flat million is the highest I'd go for him right now. MAYBE a bit more if he did acquiesce and sign an extension. And not some 5 year thing that will have him in the same boat of being underpaid again down the line, but maybe say double his remaining contract. If he has 18 months left, now he has 3 years now instead, that'd be pretty fair. But I think it would be looked at favorably by talent if management showed willingness to renegotiate from time to time and pay people more when they clearly earn/deserve it.
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Old 05-31-2022, 10:30 PM   #9851
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i feel like 250k is about right. maybe give him a bonus structure that if his segments exceed X he gets X%. maybe cover a portion of his road fees. car rentals for example. give him some perks to show you value him. he's probably worth 450k or so but right now AEW needs to be super specific with how its money is spent. there's a lot of grey areas around the corner and they need to stave off as much hemorrhaging as they can. this company could very seriously bleed out. its not stable at all. give him a path to 450k over a 5 year period with incentives based on growth.
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Old 05-31-2022, 10:31 PM   #9852
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A lot of people compare this to Sasha and Naomi obviously. Which at the base level it is. Both parties signed contracts and now neither are happy with some part of the terms of that deal.

I'm not as sympathetic to them though because they are getting paid fairly, they just don't like creative and that's something I don't jive with. I hate when people are badly booked, but at the end of the day you gotta put on the program the boss wants because he signs your checks.

Another difference is that they walked out of RAW when they were booked in the main event, whereas MJF showed up to curtain jerk and got absolutely destroyed by Wardlow and written off of TV. He showed up and did his job; they didn't.

Also I really want AEW to pay him something and keep him around because I would prefer he stay in AEW where he shines in his role.
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Old 05-31-2022, 10:34 PM   #9853
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Does anybody know what WWE guys make when they get to the main roster? Mark Henry isn’t worth 800k. MJF maybe. He’s certainly a very big part of the show. He also wrestled very very little and the Wardlow match is easily the most he’s bumped in a match that I can remember since debuting in AEW, and that’s going to be a one off thing.

Destor is right though. There’s upwards trajectory for him and I still believe he’s going to be the guy at the end of the year or this time next year carrying the belt and getting to be the guy that takes it from Punk, which is the biggest win he’s currently going to be in position to get because there’s no chance in hell he’d ever get out over Roman.

So yeah, if he can stick it out and keep getting his programs over while staying red hot with his heat, there’s only more money to be made until he’s the top guy in the company. And that’s realistically only 4 PPVs away.

After that there’d be even more money in Wardlow chasing him for the belt into their eventual showdown 2 years from now. Two homegrown stars with history main eventing the company’s biggest show. And MJF will be the man at that point.
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Old 05-31-2022, 10:37 PM   #9854
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main roster enhancement talent after expenses are honestly going to have about 40k left over in real tangible money. travel isnt cheap. and after a year or so MJF in the wwf given his size isnt going to be getting much more than that.
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Old 05-31-2022, 10:38 PM   #9855
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Quote:
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i feel like 250k is about right. maybe give him a bonus structure that if his segments exceed X he gets X%. maybe cover a portion of his road fees. car rentals for example. give him some perks to show you value him. he's probably worth 450k or so but right now AEW needs to be super specific with how its money is spent. there's a lot of grey areas around the corner and they need to stave off as much hemorrhaging as they can. this company could very seriously bleed out. its not stable at all. give him a path to 450k over a 5 year period with incentives based on growth.
Realistically yes, I'd say 450-500k is what he's really worth. But TK has unfortunately inflated tf out of contracts over there to pull people from Vince. If Henry is making 800k, I wonder what Big Slow is making? Black, Andrade, Joe, The Bucks, Omega, Cole and a couple others sitting in the 3 million range. Jericho making 4. Then the guys making 5 I already mentioned. Who knows how many others they are paying a million+ with numbers like that. What I'm saying is that he's sitting really low on the totem pole of pay right now for being in the position he's in and even 500k in this environment is going to be low on the scale.

TK shot himself in the foot with those big contracts. He's gonna have to start cutting people loose. But do you really wanna lose your top heel?
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Old 05-31-2022, 10:40 PM   #9856
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Realistically yes, I'd say 450-500k is what he's really worth. But TK has unfortunately inflated tf out of contracts over there to pull people from Vince. If Henry is making 800k, I wonder what Big Slow is making? Black, Andrade, Joe, The Bucks, Omega, Cole and a couple others sitting in the 3 million range. Jericho making 4. Then the guys making 5 I already mentioned. Who knows how many others they are paying a million+ with numbers like that. What I'm saying is that he's sitting really low on the totem pole of pay right now for being in the position he's in and even 500k in this environment is going to be low on the scale.

TK shot himself in the foot with those big contracts. He's gonna have to start cutting people loose. But do you really wanna lose your top heel?
if you dont lose him you lose more money than you have. there's too many guys that want pay bumps. he's given the office no choice.
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Old 05-31-2022, 10:41 PM   #9857
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i respect a guy who demands to be respected. truly. but mjf has nowhere to go and he overplayed his hand.
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Old 05-31-2022, 10:42 PM   #9858
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I don't see how AEW gets MJF in the title picture at all, not any time soon. He has no credibility in ring atm at that level; they almost always book him to lose (or he has to win dirty or via interference). He just got flat out embarrassed. His record isn't going to get him a shot with the way they've booked so many others to have damn near spotless records of their own. So outside of them suddenly turning him into a badass submission machine that destroys people all of a sudden without his backup, what do you do to make him credible as a title contender again?

The only other way I can see them getting there within a year is if Wardlow wins the title and they have a rematch.
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Old 05-31-2022, 10:43 PM   #9859
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A lot of people compare this to Sasha and Naomi obviously. Which at the base level it is. Both parties signed contracts and now neither are happy with some part of the terms of that deal.

I'm not as sympathetic to them though because they are getting paid fairly, they just don't like creative and that's something I don't jive with. I hate when people are badly booked, but at the end of the day you gotta put on the program the boss wants because he signs your checks.

Another difference is that they walked out of RAW when they were booked in the main event, whereas MJF showed up to curtain jerk and got absolutely destroyed by Wardlow and written off of TV. He showed up and did his job; they didn't.

Also I really want AEW to pay him something and keep him around because I would prefer he stay in AEW where he shines in his role.
I’m more sympathetic to Sasha, who’s been booked poorly for nearly her entire run, from hot shotting short title reigns, to being thrown into shoe horned teams and title runs. Sasha’s WWE run is the drizzling shits compared to what she did in NXT.

MJF meanwhile has been heavily protected, being pinned 4 times since debuting, and the lowest profile mande he’s put over is Wardlow.

I also don’t think they’re comparable. Unless something comes out that says otherwise, it seems MJF is concerned with his money and Sasha is over the booking. MJF doesn’t really have a leg to stand on when it comes to how he’s been handled creatively. He beat CM Punk twice in one night and as it stands holds the world champs only loss. He’s got nothing on that part to complain about.
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Old 05-31-2022, 10:44 PM   #9860
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I don't see how AEW gets MJF in the title picture at all, not any time soon. He has no credibility in ring atm at that level; they almost always book him to lose. He just got flat out embarrassed. His record isn't going to get him a shot with the way they've booked so many others to have damn near spotless records of their own. So outside of them suddenly turning him into a badass submission machine that destroys people all of a sudden without his backup, what do you do to make him credible as a title contender again?

The only other way I can see them getting there within a year is if Wardlow wins the title and they have a rematch.
if im being honest this sounds like the kind of booking id expect from a money mark
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Old 05-31-2022, 10:46 PM   #9861
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I'm honestly very interested to see how long they write MJF off TV for and especially what they do with him if/when he comes back. Will be very telling about how much they value him.

Imagine if they pull a WWE and just have him sit out his contract at home for the next 18 months.
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Old 05-31-2022, 10:52 PM   #9862
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Adam Cole got a title shot, 2 in fact, after losing to Orange fucking Cassidy. He’s not hurt by that loss. He could walk out tomorrow and get heat like nobody else on the roster and be ultimately unaffected by the loss to Wardlow.

He could also win a qualifying match, like a battle royale, ladder match etc. And Punk just won the title and isn’t likely to drop it until the end of the year. There’s more than enough time to build him back up and get him into the title picture.
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Old 05-31-2022, 10:53 PM   #9863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senpai Seph View Post
I don't see how AEW gets MJF in the title picture at all, not any time soon. He has no credibility in ring atm at that level; they almost always book him to lose (or he has to win dirty or via interference). He just got flat out embarrassed. His record isn't going to get him a shot with the way they've booked so many others to have damn near spotless records of their own. So outside of them suddenly turning him into a badass submission machine that destroys people all of a sudden without his backup, what do you do to make him credible as a title contender again?

The only other way I can see them getting there within a year is if Wardlow wins the title and they have a rematch.
Tony Nese went into the PPV in the top 5. If they can book Tony Nese into the top 5, they can book literally anybody to be in the top 5.

Tony Fucking Nese
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Old 06-01-2022, 03:18 AM   #9864
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Thats what I mean by there being a problem there. They have a ton of guys that they have positioned rankings wise and credibility wise ahead of MJF. He's gotta suddenly start having more matches and winning ALL of them because he is 1-4 this year. This is why I hate that stupid ranking system and how they go by that or HEY LOOK ANOTHER TOURNAMENT. And even in the tournament route, you'll kinda have to explain why it is that this guy who couldn't win shit without cheating can take down all these credible guys in a tournament outta nowhere. All of this is moot anyways until we know if/when he even comes back.
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Old 06-01-2022, 03:28 AM   #9865
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They have 60 guys with a better record than MJF in this years rankings lol.
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Old 06-01-2022, 03:34 AM   #9866
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my god I had no idea how big their roster really is until I looked at it. 105 guys. I think maybe only 100 really because a handful of them are people they didn't resign, but they are still listed.
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Old 06-01-2022, 03:49 AM   #9867
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PAUL MUTHA FUCKIN TITAN IS ON AEW DARK BAY BAY
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Old 06-01-2022, 03:59 AM   #9868
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NUH UH NO WAAAAAI
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Old 06-01-2022, 04:00 AM   #9869
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OMG ITZ 4 REAL
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Old 06-01-2022, 04:09 AM   #9870
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Holy shit did you guys know that Paul Titan tagged with Lance Archer to win the RCW tag team titles?
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Old 06-01-2022, 06:25 AM   #9871
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Quote:
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MJF coming off the indies, with no name and no value outside of what they intended to build with him, wasnt making any real money. his first contract lets says its 80k. thats the first garunteed money he's ever had. so he gets over. they bump him to 250k. if he's actually smart he should be able to see the upward momentum. if plays his cards right and becomes truly indispensable then in time, say 5 years after they with his key role helping to elevate the product, he's holding down real money he can start putting away.

he's an important act for the quality of the show. but if we're talking return on investment he's got some ways to go to be pulling money like former wwfs guys are pulling. and for obvious reasons.

now he puts the office in a real tough spot. they cant pay the entire roster 5mill/a. the money isnt there to spend what theyre spending as is. this company is losing money afterall. so if they pay MJF they have nothing to barter with when contracts come up with the rest of the card.

he's made a scenario where they basically cant give him what he wants. it will cost them way too much.
I really respect your opinion, but I do have to disagree. I think the WWE are going to take him and use him way better than people expect. I think he’s got some sort of transmedial value (talk shows, talent search shows, albums, acting, etc.) and he’s going to be allowed to push buttons (within reason) that Vince and Bruce will be 100% behind. Cody’s got their ear, and I’m pretty sure Cody will want the next chapter with him in a stadium show, and MJF will probably be able to go over after saying all the trash he wants.

I don’t think he’s going to beat Roman Reigns at WrestleMania. Can I see him squeaking out a Money in the Bank and having a big gun at his side that gives him believable ways to cheat and helps build up another jacked-up guy they plan to bank on? Absolutely.

I legitimately think he will have a Hall of Fame worthy career (by their standards) by the time he’s done five years with them.

From the AEW side of things: I get that they don’t want to cave in and know he’s almost definitely going. But I think you want that guy on your TV and at least get the chance to re-up with him in 18 months. The landscape could be entirely different. WWE has their business ducks in a row, but their popularity might take a hit from an influx of people who see, say, The Rock for a WrestleMania thing and then hate the product or whatever. Vince could die. A scandal could break out. Someone gets sideways with them and jumps out of spite and opens them up. Hell, Tony might figure something out and AEW could get better.

I’d be working with him and letting him know “Okay, you think you’re leaving. But I’m going to make it so you get what you think you need right now and in 18 months it’s going to be worth it to stay with me.” And you get what you can put while he is important instead of just handing him off and risking him making them look like there’s another guy they squandered.

It being so public is awkward. But it shouldn’t have gotten to this point. In my opinion, this should have been a private conversation between Tony and MJF where Tony increased his deal, because he’s actually worth that. It’s not something you do for anyone unless they are making waves.
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Old 06-01-2022, 06:28 AM   #9872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senpai Seph View Post
Thats what I mean by there being a problem there. They have a ton of guys that they have positioned rankings wise and credibility wise ahead of MJF. He's gotta suddenly start having more matches and winning ALL of them because he is 1-4 this year. This is why I hate that stupid ranking system and how they go by that or HEY LOOK ANOTHER TOURNAMENT. And even in the tournament route, you'll kinda have to explain why it is that this guy who couldn't win shit without cheating can take down all these credible guys in a tournament outta nowhere. All of this is moot anyways until we know if/when he even comes back.
The rankings were always a horrible idea. What you do is book people to look important and effective and don’t lean on numbers unless they enhance your story. If you make things too much about the numbers you get too tricky for yourself and need to start booking people up and down to position them better/worse instead of just actually telling the fucking story.

It’s an obstacle you are unnecessarily placing between yourself and your goals.
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Old 06-01-2022, 06:54 AM   #9873
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Anyway, I’m telling you guys — they should put the World Title on Hobbs at Forbidden Door.

Everyone is so stuck in their patterns. Being unpredictable isn’t necessarily a good thing, but when everything feels preordained, it gets this stench of fakeness. Sometimes guys and emerge and just take life by the balls.

AEW has the problem of being the “other wrestling.” It’s got its diehards who champion everything they do, but so many of them are plugged into WWE too. And it’s clear who the A1 guy in wrestling is. It’s Roman Reigns. So there’s no drama created in the idea that the AEW World Champion is possibly The Best in the World.

You need to find people with an appeal that you make stars. And they’re going to be way more effective if fans believe that there’s a chance they could just be A1.

Everyone is kept in their place and no one ever truly grows. Not in a seismic way. They tried telling the story that Adam Page “deserves” to be World Champion, but it was so badly booked and stunk of “it’s all part of the plan.” He hasn’t gotten any better so he’s still all potential with nothing that really ever shoots out of it.

Hobbs also has the history with Punk and would be standing there with Ricky Starks (who gets something out of it). It tells a story of growth. He couldn’t beat Punk six months ago but is now ready. He also gets to end Punk’s reign in dramatic fashion before it really takes off, which allows the hardcore fans to pick up on the irony of Punk being a guy that is known for holding another World Title for a really long time.

Sure, maybe it doesn’t work gangbusters. But what do you have to lose? Tell people that someone is a goddamn star instead of having everyone with “potential” remain potential until they “deserve it.” Everyone is constantly in this state of possibly being someone one day that no one ever becomes anything.

I’d give it a shot. See what shakes out of it.

Punk cuts a promo saying that he wants to give hungry young talent a chance. Hobbs wins some sort of Battle Royal or whatever. Everyone expects it to be Adam Cole or someone, maybe. He’s a shocker and a spanner in the works. “I ain’t losing to you again.”

Danielson and Okada get the Forbidden Door main event. Hobbs beats Punk in the middle of a show that a lot of people probably think is a routine defense. Hobbs goes to the back and celebrates with Team Taz and cuts a promo about how they didn’t think he would win because they didn’t book him in the main event. He proved them all wrong.
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Old 06-01-2022, 09:33 AM   #9874
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All this talk about MJF is nonsense. Mark talk.




We need to be talking about Paul Fucking Titan god damnit. Everyone else is irrelevant, especially Bryan.
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Old 06-01-2022, 09:34 AM   #9875
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PAUL MUTHA FUCKIN TITAN IS ON AEW DARK BAY BAY
Nice, how did our boy do?
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Old 06-01-2022, 09:35 AM   #9876
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Just checked it out.... Paul Titan remaining unpinned in both WWE and AEW.
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Old 06-01-2022, 11:34 AM   #9877
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paul titan lookin good out there!
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Old 06-01-2022, 11:49 AM   #9878
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He looked great honestly. And they let him get some shine without eating the pin. Happy for him.
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Old 06-01-2022, 11:56 AM   #9879
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Quote:
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All this talk about MJF is nonsense. Mark talk.




We need to be talking about Paul Fucking Titan god damnit. Everyone else is irrelevant, especially Bryan.
Paul Titan can be MJF’s new bodyguard in WWE. They can eventually split and have a giant match at WrestleMania.
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Old 06-01-2022, 12:15 PM   #9880
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Here's the Youtube link where it shows our boy ROLLERFREAKINMACKA on the "tron"


and the embed of the entire show. Start it around 6:06
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