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Old 05-18-2023, 03:29 PM   #13961
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The argument is about how effective the programming is. That Dynamite doesn’t generate interest suggests that it is missing fans that would care if it were good.
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Old 05-18-2023, 03:49 PM   #13962
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It has exceeded expectations and has just doubled its live programming hours.

Everything's missing fans, it's what everything in the world is trying to do at the same time.
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Old 05-18-2023, 04:29 PM   #13963
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No it hasn’t. They might have better days, better time slots, a streaming deal or more control over the amount of content they generate (rn they’re totally at the mercy of WBD) if they had a better success rate.

And there’s that smokescreen argument I don’t like. Not everything shrivels and dies on the vine. Let’s stop excusing it.
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Old 05-18-2023, 04:56 PM   #13964
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Yeah the fact they’ve added more content can’t be chalked up as a win, at least not yet. Let’s see what they turn out. Part of the problem with the current setup is Rampage is very clearly a B show that nobody watches and Dynamite is trying to feature too many moving parts. A roster split of any kind might help with this but it’s not a panacea to fix all ills.
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Old 05-18-2023, 05:02 PM   #13965
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No it hasn’t. They might have better days, better time slots, a streaming deal or more control over the amount of content they generate (rn they’re totally at the mercy of WBD) if they had a better success rate.

And there’s that smokescreen argument I don’t like. Not everything shrivels and dies on the vine. Let’s stop excusing it.
I don't know what the argument even is. They literally, materially exceeded the original expectations for how Dynamite would before. Yes, they are at the mercy of their biggest customer, what alternative would you suggest? That you like a load of WWE wrestlers? Good, they're making more money than ever! Cheer up, dickhead.

You don't like modern wrestling but it's making more money now, I'm sorry to tell you this. It's a media product, blame Vince for starting Raw and making wrestling the never ending live show. You won't name numbers, you have no advice to offer these companies, WWE is making insane amounts of money. I pause before saying that AEW is making money because I don't know and I'm sure I'll get told how it's a joke and losing hand over fist.

I thought that's what we were all supposed to care about, the money and the miles, right? That's what all the legit, old school legends said, right? Suddenly the money's not good enough?
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Old 05-18-2023, 05:25 PM   #13966
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There is plenty to be said about how shows and companies could be doing things better, I just don't think it's going to affect the bottom line as much as you think, nor is it as easy as you think. It's a miracle these shows exist at all.
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Old 05-18-2023, 07:21 PM   #13967
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For the record, until Financials come out, nobody can say what more programming hours mean. If they are still operating in the red, then another live show is just going back to compound that.

AEW has also not been able to maintain viewership for 3 hours a week, but now we just assume they can for 5? It is a big ask.
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Old 05-18-2023, 07:28 PM   #13968
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Are they in the red? We just keep saying lots of things here. Not popular, not able to maintain viewership, by what standards? Everyone is reportedly very happy at a time when media companies are tightening their belts and harshly cancelling things. Again, what should these numbers be, what's the magic viewing figure that suddenly turns all this web of lies about success into a truth?
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Old 05-18-2023, 07:51 PM   #13969
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Are they in the red? We just keep saying lots of things here. Not popular, not able to maintain viewership, by what standards? Everyone is reportedly very happy at a time when media companies are tightening their belts and harshly cancelling things. Again, what should these numbers be, what's the magic viewing figure that suddenly turns all this web of lies about success into a truth?
We do not know without the financials, which is the point. We cannot know if it is a good thing for the company or a bad thing for the company based on the information that has been released. We do not know if there is anything in place to handle the extra workload, or if Tony is just planning on doing more cocaine!

Ideally, the show is separate to minimize backstage drama, run by somebody else to minimize being stretched too thin, and profitable. My only point is we do not know any of that. Thunder had a disastrous effect on WCW for all of the same reasons.
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Old 05-19-2023, 12:30 AM   #13970
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I keep beating this drum but I really want Darby to win the World title. I understand they were going for the whole long reigns builds legitimacy thing pre the Punk debacle but if your going to have your young pillars feud over it lets do some crash TV.

It doesnt need to be handed around like crazy but lets see a surprise win and someone making gutsy defences as a fighting champ for a month or two. Make a few big defences along with the smaller ones before dropping it to someone not surprising, in a surprising location/fashion (a live Rampage?)

I think Darby or Penta (with a little build now hes been off TV a bit) could be perfect. The crowd love them, they can go in ring, they could defend up or down the card believably on TV and just bring something a little different to the table when you have Reigns doing the long reign thing over in WWE land as well.
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Old 05-19-2023, 03:39 AM   #13971
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We do not know without the financials, which is the point. We cannot know if it is a good thing for the company or a bad thing for the company based on the information that has been released. We do not know if there is anything in place to handle the extra workload, or if Tony is just planning on doing more cocaine!

Ideally, the show is separate to minimize backstage drama, run by somebody else to minimize being stretched too thin, and profitable. My only point is we do not know any of that. Thunder had a disastrous effect on WCW for all of the same reasons.
You're talking about something different now, and once again we find ourselves back in the 20th century for some reason.

I guess we all have to shuffle our feet and pretend it's possibly a Machiavellian plan by WBD.
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Old 05-19-2023, 04:35 AM   #13972
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Quote:
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You're talking about something different now, and once again we find ourselves back in the 20th century for some reason.

I guess we all have to shuffle our feet and pretend it's possibly a Machiavellian plan by WBD.
I am not talking about something different. A new TV show has been announced, that is all. Anything else is pure speculation. I didn't say it was a plan, or doomed, or anything else other than we cannot say for now, because there are no details yet.

You seem to be ignoring where I am saying it could possibly be a great deal, bring lots of money, produce quality tv, etc. You are only focusing on the part where I am saying it could possibly be a bad deal, cost them lots of money, produce bad tv, etc.
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Old 05-19-2023, 05:29 AM   #13973
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I am not talking about something different.
You moved from talking about the history of AEW being doomed, to a different thing, now the second show is the iceberg that's going to sink the company. So they're already apparently failing and in debt, but now this new show could make them fail and be in debt. You could operate from a position that they're doing okay but the new show could tip them over, but no, apparently the company's terrible and WBD gave them a second live show to produce because??? I guess anything is possible, that is but merely what you are deigning to but say.
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Old 05-19-2023, 09:56 AM   #13974
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Tony Khan doing some REALLY dumb stuff today, but we can't talk about that here because we have to talk about the fantasy world in which the show's getting cancelled and arenas are filled with AI generated fans.
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Old 05-19-2023, 10:27 AM   #13975
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Hey guys apparently The Rogerer doesn't know he's allowed to change the subject lolol what a schmuck.
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Old 05-19-2023, 10:32 AM   #13976
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Interesting stuff happening but it would be a waste of time to talk about it since the show'll be off the air soon anyway, on to bigger and better things for me!
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Old 05-19-2023, 10:35 AM   #13977
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You moved from talking about the history of AEW being doomed, to a different thing, now the second show is the iceberg that's going to sink the company. So they're already apparently failing and in debt, but now this new show could make them fail and be in debt. You could operate from a position that they're doing okay but the new show could tip them over, but no, apparently the company's terrible and WBD gave them a second live show to produce because??? I guess anything is possible, that is but merely what you are deigning to but say.
Sigh...

Quote:
A new TV show has been announced, that is all. Anything else is pure speculation. I didn't say it was a plan, or doomed, or anything else other than we cannot say for now, because there are no details yet.

You seem to be ignoring where I am saying it could possibly be a great deal, bring lots of money, produce quality tv, etc. You are only focusing on the part where I am saying it could possibly be a bad deal, cost them lots of money, produce bad tv, etc.
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Old 05-19-2023, 02:41 PM   #13978
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I'm in the minority I'm sure but I had no interest in Starks vs Jay White the other night. So there's at least one PPV match I can zone out during.
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Old 05-19-2023, 08:44 PM   #13979
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I don't know what the argument even is. They literally, materially exceeded the original expectations for how Dynamite would before. Yes, they are at the mercy of their biggest customer, what alternative would you suggest? That you like a load of WWE wrestlers? Good, they're making more money than ever! Cheer up, dickhead.

You don't like modern wrestling but it's making more money now, I'm sorry to tell you this. It's a media product, blame Vince for starting Raw and making wrestling the never ending live show. You won't name numbers, you have no advice to offer these companies, WWE is making insane amounts of money. I pause before saying that AEW is making money because I don't know and I'm sure I'll get told how it's a joke and losing hand over fist.

I thought that's what we were all supposed to care about, the money and the miles, right? That's what all the legit, old school legends said, right? Suddenly the money's not good enough?
No they haven’t. I expected Dynamite to do better. You’re taking a low bar, letting them jump over it and calling it exceeding expectations. It doesn’t make it true. I used to like plenty of AEW wrestlers too, but I don’t watch them in AEW because it fucking sucks. That’s the point.

WWE making more money than ever is great for their bottom line, but it doesn’t make the content better. I have given numbers, I have given advice, don’t know what your rambling ass is going on about with the legends stuff. I just want good wrestling that works, man. Give me something good and I’ll say it’s good. I’m not going to lick the boot of whatever presents itself though.
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Old 05-19-2023, 08:45 PM   #13980
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Collision is just going to add to the glut. Talent is going to be more exposed and less focused on. It’s more ask of viewers. It’s going to hurt.
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Old 05-19-2023, 09:44 PM   #13981
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Dynamite drew 1.4 million viewers for its debut episode. Their viewership peaked on day 1.

More people watched the debut of Jake Hager than any of the 50+ debuts that came after.

Seriously, Jake Hager is historically their biggest draw.
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Old 05-19-2023, 09:57 PM   #13982
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That last sentence was one too many. I don't think you can claim that people were watching because of Jake Hager, he wasn't even announced to be there.
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Old 05-19-2023, 10:52 PM   #13983
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Why are you guys endlessly arguing the same thing over and over?
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Old 05-19-2023, 11:06 PM   #13984
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Why are you guys endlessly arguing the same thing over and over?
Oh, I'm sorry. Is this your first time on the internet?
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Old 05-20-2023, 12:21 AM   #13985
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The Collision artwork, posters whatever you want to call it gives me Nitro call back vibes. I don't hate it.
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Old 05-20-2023, 12:45 AM   #13986
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Fight Forever apparently slated for june 27. Offial statement expected soon, if not within the week.
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Old 05-20-2023, 01:01 AM   #13987
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Fight Forever apparently slated for june 27. Offial statement expected soon, if not within the week.
I tried playing some old WWE 2k games the other day and just couldn't get into it. Maybe I'm too old for this stuff now
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Old 05-20-2023, 04:23 AM   #13988
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No they haven’t. I expected Dynamite to do better. You’re taking a low bar, letting them jump over it and calling it exceeding expectations. It doesn’t make it true. I used to like plenty of AEW wrestlers too, but I don’t watch them in AEW because it fucking sucks. That’s the point.

WWE making more money than ever is great for their bottom line, but it doesn’t make the content better. I have given numbers, I have given advice, don’t know what your rambling ass is going on about with the legends stuff. I just want good wrestling that works, man. Give me something good and I’ll say it’s good. I’m not going to lick the boot of whatever presents itself though.
1. It's a TV show that was commissioned to hit a certain level of ratings. They have consistently exceeded those ratings. I'm sorry if that simple matter upsets you. They got more money and now an extra show. I still haven't seen the ratings that you think Dynamite should be hitting.

2. You've changed the discussion entirely here. You always talked about popularity and success. Now you're saying you just want it to be good. Would you be happy with a show that you liked more but with lower ratings? Or do you just assume that if they do what you like, the show would be more popular?

It's worth discussing personal preference in wrestling. It's just a shame you talked entirely about performance metrics and then pretended you were talking about quality all along.
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Old 05-20-2023, 09:14 AM   #13989
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What level of ratings were they commissioned to hit, exactly? Because it sounds like you're making stuff up here.
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Old 05-20-2023, 09:41 AM   #13990
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Talk from 2019 was that TNT were happy with 400k as a starting point and considered 500k a success. I made this number up, it was actually expected that they'd hit 3 million and now they have to do a second live show as an apology.
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Old 05-20-2023, 12:02 PM   #13991
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I don't NOT believe you, Rog. But do you have a source? Because if you can back those numbers up, that's basically "it" for the argument.
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Old 05-20-2023, 12:04 PM   #13992
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I mean it's not out of the realm of reason to view AEW as a success even if the product is a bit crap a lot of the time. Everyone sings to the skies about how WWE is a juggernaut and they've produced some of the worst television you'll ever see in your lifetime week after week. Wrestling is kind of just bad now (and has been for decades).
Last edited by Ol Dirty Dastard; 05-20-2023 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 05-20-2023, 12:17 PM   #13993
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Why would I make them up? The source of the numbers came from Meltzer so of course they should be immolated, you can do your own searches too, but even back in 2019 you'll find that people fixated on these numbers and were convinced AEW would do 400k and NXT would do 800k - probably the same people who do the "no million" crowd.

It's funny that it's been said I'm making things up, when I'm just going by the best information available. Those were the expectations for the show, the show did better. Even if those ratings are made up, the network seems really happy. To me the problem only exists if one has to start contorting reality into "I hate the show and the ratings are lower than I think they should be therefore it's doing really badly". If people hate AEW then that's up to them, I just have a queue of people here saying "Also it's a failure" when it just isn't. If you hate AEW then that's a bad thing for you, they're doing something you hate and it's working.

TV ratings are low. Wrestling has always been a niche thing, and the ways that it was able to explode in Hulkamania and the Attitude eras just don't exist now. Entertainment is radically different. Do not take it for granted that there's still multiple promotions putting live wrestling on TV. It could have gone away forever. Maybe this is as good as it gets.
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Old 05-20-2023, 12:23 PM   #13994
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I would imagine this is basically as good as it gets. TV ratings for everything are paltry now. You hear people across all genres complaint about it. We consume entertainment so much differently now, making the metrics of old basically pointless.
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Old 05-20-2023, 01:02 PM   #13995
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Nobody ever said TNT was only expecting 400,000 viewers. Even if that were true, once the first episode got 1.4 million viewers, it is reasonable for the network to wonder where 600,000 viewers went.

If TNT expected 400,000 and Dynamite is getting 800,000, then why did TNT stop putting out press releases touting the viewership after it declined? Why did they move it off TNT at all? If a show is getting double what the network expected, they should be over the moon, not sending it to the B Network.

How about the Saturday show? Since Saturdays have less people watching TV, will TNT be expecting even less than their initial 400,000 viewers? Are we honestly supposed to believe Warner Bros Discovery is eager to pay $80 million a year for 2 hours of Saturday Night TV, as long as AEW can get at least 400,000 viewers?

WBD will want to pay less, and they will want more viewers. That is basic business, get the most bang for their buck. If the current deal is paying $15 million per hour of TV, justify why they would bump that up all the way to $40 million per hour for shows that have lost roughly 40% for Dynamite and 50% for Rampage? They don't own the content, they aren't going to make up the difference on a back end syndication deal.

This is a company so desperate to cut spending they cancelled the release of a Batgirl movie just for a tax writeoff! Yet they are going to give a bunch of money to a guy who is going to fund his wrestling company with his daddy's money no matter what? WBD does not care if AEW makes itself a profit, they care if they can make a profit off AEW.

My source if you are wondering is THAT IS HOW BUSINESS WORKS! WBD answers to it's shareholders, not AEW diehards that think AEW is the greatest thing ever and should get paid because they, because LET'S FUCKING GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-20-2023, 01:03 PM   #13996
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Derrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrp.
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Old 05-20-2023, 01:33 PM   #13997
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Nobody ever said TNT was only expecting 400,000 viewers.
He said that you son of a bitch
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Old 05-20-2023, 01:33 PM   #13998
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I would like a quote or a link to verify such statements.
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Old 05-20-2023, 01:35 PM   #13999
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but what about wcw losing the network money, i kept hittng myself in the head aeiwith a hammer an = now itsa 1997 agian
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Old 05-20-2023, 01:36 PM   #14000
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I would like a quote or a link to verify such statements.
No, it's mine and you'll never see it
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