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Old 11-04-2023, 12:33 AM   #15121
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It wouldn’t surprise me if Tony Khan doesn’t value real friendship, because he knows it’s all phoney. But it’s going to be a bit sad if AEW ends and he can’t get people to hang out and drink White Claw with him anymore.
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Old 11-04-2023, 12:34 AM   #15122
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Someone’s going to get thrown under the bus for this mess. It’s almost definitely going to be Tony Khan when the wrestlers all have their say.
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Old 11-04-2023, 05:56 AM   #15123
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He needs to do something to boost that live attendance. Has he thought about walking around with the AEW World Championship before shows and taking photos with the fans?
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Old 11-04-2023, 06:24 AM   #15124
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Maybe he could just not charge people for entry?
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Old 11-04-2023, 08:29 AM   #15125
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Maybe he could just not charge people for entry?
Ooh. That's not bad!

As the face of AEW he needs to be in angles with top talent. Maybe a romance with Hikaru Shida?
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Old 11-04-2023, 11:11 AM   #15126
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They can pluck a Jacksonville Jaguars cheerleader to accuse Tony of doing the deed.
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Old 11-04-2023, 11:25 AM   #15127
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Under 2,200k tickets distributed for their Chicago show later this month. Wow.
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Old 11-05-2023, 01:22 PM   #15128
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The card for Dynamite looks fucking awful this week:

* MJF vs. Daniel Garcia for the AEW World Title
* Jay White vs. Mark Briscoe
* Samoa Joe vs. Keith Lee for the ROH TV Ritle
* Red Velvet vs. Julia Hart
* Swerve Strickland vs. Pentagon, Jr
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Old 11-05-2023, 02:18 PM   #15129
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Old 11-05-2023, 05:06 PM   #15130
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You’re welcome.
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Old 11-05-2023, 05:19 PM   #15131
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Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
The card for Dynamite looks fucking awful this week:

* MJF vs. Daniel Garcia for the AEW World Title
* Jay White vs. Mark Briscoe
* Samoa Joe vs. Keith Lee for the ROH TV Ritle
* Red Velvet vs. Julia Hart
* Swerve Strickland vs. Pentagon, Jr
The Garcia thing is so frustrating. Like why is this happening? Garcia has never drawn a dime, and never will unless he gets on the gas.

Swerve VS Penta is oood though, looking forward to that
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Old 11-05-2023, 05:56 PM   #15132
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Garcia’s not w/o talent. He’s just not there yet and has been presented like a joke. People aren’t going to be invested in the idea of him challenging for the World Title, especially when everybody knows the belt is no danger of changing hands.

Swerve vs. Penta isn’t my thing. If it’s yours — cool. But again, there’s no drama in this because they’re just going to flip for 20 mins before Swerve wins because he has a match against Hang-on Page coming up.
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Old 11-05-2023, 06:04 PM   #15133
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Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
Garcia’s not w/o talent. He’s just not there yet and has been presented like a joke. People aren’t going to be invested in the idea of him challenging for the World Title, especially when everybody knows the belt is no danger of changing hands.

Swerve vs. Penta isn’t my thing. If it’s yours — cool. But again, there’s no drama in this because they’re just going to flip for 20 mins before Swerve wins because he has a match against Hang-on Page coming up.
Agreed. Garcia just needs to hit the weights, big time. He used to be presented as this Benoit style rassler, but you see him and it's just not impressive. He needs to put on mass, and he'll get there

Swerve has been growing on me recently, and Penta is usually entertaining (his overuse of Canadian destroyers aside)
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Old 11-05-2023, 06:22 PM   #15134
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Remember when they had a ranking system to determine who got a shot at the champ? Now Garcia has a title shot because reasons.
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Old 11-05-2023, 06:45 PM   #15135
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Not a fan of Garcia. The dancing thing is dumb and he's boring as fuck. He shouldn't be challenging for the World Title.
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Old 11-05-2023, 06:46 PM   #15136
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lol the rankings! CM Punk was still listed as number one like 6 months after he'd been suspended.

Update: he still is number one because the rankings haven't been updated since August 31, 2022.
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Old 11-05-2023, 07:02 PM   #15137
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All 4 of the men’s matches on dynamite this week seem like they’ll be great in-ring matches and we have a fucking numbskull who doesn’t watch saying the card looks awful
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Old 11-05-2023, 07:02 PM   #15138
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Groan @ Red Velvet being back though. Never saw anything with her in ring, was kinda hoping she was gonna be one of those talents that got quietly non-renewed
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Old 11-05-2023, 07:05 PM   #15139
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I think the rankings were a cool idea to begin with but also think they became something of a hindrance as the company got older. You started having everyone and their brother wrestling squash matches on Dark because they wanted to inflate records

They would intentionally bench guys if they didn’t want them winning too many matches to justify a title shot. Ditto for the tag division. Guys would suddenly get booked in 6-man and 8-man tags so their tag records didn’t get too good
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Old 11-05-2023, 07:18 PM   #15140
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That's not how rankings should work. Almost always you should beat someone ranked to move into the rankings. Beating nobodies shouldn't get you ranked.

Back when I cared I noticed CM Punk beat numerous people when he first joined AEW some of whom were ranked. Quite frustrating to see that he wasn't getting ranked. This changed when he said at the press conference that he wanted to be AEW Champion.
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Old 11-05-2023, 07:55 PM   #15141
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If Gabe couldnt get rankings over no one can
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Old 11-05-2023, 09:01 PM   #15142
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Quote:
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I think the rankings were a cool idea to begin with but also think they became something of a hindrance as the company got older. You started having everyone and their brother wrestling squash matches on Dark because they wanted to inflate records

They would intentionally bench guys if they didn’t want them winning too many matches to justify a title shot. Ditto for the tag division. Guys would suddenly get booked in 6-man and 8-man tags so their tag records didn’t get too good
Ill never forget when Tony Nese was a top 5 contender for the World Title based on a bunch of dark wins lol
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Old 11-06-2023, 01:27 PM   #15143
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Ill never forget when Tony Nese was a top 5 contender for the World Title based on a bunch of dark wins lol
Holy shit. The rankings were always a bad idea. Was always going to force them into corners. Limits the stories you can tell and makes it hard to shift gears and directions with guys.
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Old 11-06-2023, 01:39 PM   #15144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Vito View Post
All 4 of the men’s matches on dynamite this week seem like they’ll be great in-ring matches and we have a fucking numbskull who doesn’t watch saying the card looks awful
MJF vs. Daniel Garcia will be “fine” in the ring. Maybe “good.” But I’ve already laid out why it’s a bad idea to do it for the World Title now, and look — a bunch of people seem to agree with this “numbskull.” And why don’t I watch? Oh yeah, because of a shit product like this. Some people want more substance than a bunch of dudes flopping around.

Samoa Joe is a talented guy. Great worker. Booked fucking horribly. He’s held the irrelevant mid-card title of a dead promotion for almost 2 years that they sometimes forget even exists. He was a breath of fresh air being inserted into the main event scene despite this, but has prematurely been taken out. He’s now going to “wrestle” Keith Lee — who absolutely sucks. Lee’s finishing move would be heart disease if he could make it contagious. Most people accept he’s a big ol’ bust in AEW, and hey — who could have guessed that from the start?

Swerve has talent. But when he’s against flippy guys he just flips. Plus he’s involved in an all-time bad story right now, breaking into peoole’s homes (is it because he’s black, Tony?) and cutting promos on babies. Pentagon is overrated as hell. Pantomime presentation, spams Canadian Destroyers and other nonsensical bullshit. But even if you like this shit (as I said: “cool”), you can’t pretend there’s any drama in the context of the match.

I can’t even remember what the 4th match is. Oh, Jay White and Mark Briscoe. Both talented guys. Somehow TK dropped the ball with Mark even despite there being a death to exploit. Jay White has lost something with Punk booking him. He’s in over his head on this main event story. He’s not used to cutting promos and he and MJF don’t match up well visually. It’s surrounded by all this Black Scorpion bullshit and again, there’s no drama in the outcome because Jay White is going to a PPV title match, Mark Briscoe is irrelevant and has been booked as such.

Where is the fucking lie?
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Old 11-06-2023, 03:33 PM   #15145
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I don't understand why Mark Briscoe cares so much that Jay White has MJF's Championship. As far as reasons to make a match, that is even weaker than the "I walked into your backstage interview so now we must fight" trope (which is how we got the Joe vs Lee match booked).
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Old 11-06-2023, 05:19 PM   #15146
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Lol at the reasoning behind Joe and Lee wrestling.

Is that really why Mark Briscoe is going after Jay White? This company.
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Old 11-06-2023, 05:20 PM   #15147
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Did Keith Lee ever get even with Swerve Strickland for crushing his head with a cinder block?
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Old 11-06-2023, 08:23 PM   #15148
Verbose Minch
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Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
Did Keith Lee ever get even with Swerve Strickland for crushing his head with a cinder block?
He doesn't remember it because of the concussion

Also, Keith Lee stinks and looks/speaks like an autistic grandpa
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Old 11-06-2023, 08:36 PM   #15149
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He was better as the BEARCAT. Yeah, I said it. So what? Wanna fight about it?
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Old 11-06-2023, 09:02 PM   #15150
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He was better as the BEARCAT. Yeah, I said it. So what? Wanna fight about it?
Nobody would dare dispute the power of BEARCAT Keith Lee
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Old 11-06-2023, 09:14 PM   #15151
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He doesn't remember it because of the concussion

Also, Keith Lee stinks and looks/speaks like an autistic grandpa
I don't know how someone who describes themself as verbose cannot identify the indubitably insatiable verbosity of the indescribable, incomparable Limitless Keith Lee.
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Old 11-06-2023, 09:35 PM   #15152
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I don't know how someone who describes themself as verbose cannot identify the indubitably insatiable verbosity of the indescribable, incomparable Limitless Keith Lee.
This feels like what me on the best (?) Booking posts.

Also, last Keith Lee match I saw was the one where Zicky Dice bounced off of him and put himself into the Spirit Bomb.
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Old 11-07-2023, 01:04 AM   #15153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveWadding View Post
I don't know how someone who describes themself as verbose cannot identify the indubitably insatiable verbosity of the indescribable, incomparable Limitless Keith Lee.
I've identified it because I'm also an autistic grandpa (and I stink)
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Old 11-07-2023, 01:34 AM   #15154
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This is the one guys. I can feel it in my soul. This is the announcement that will change everything.
They should just hire Dixie Carter, and repeatedly have Tony make an announcement that she has an announcement, and then have her announcement be that TK has an announcement. Just bounce it between the two of them, ad infinitum.

They also haven't done anything like the borderline bait & switch announcement yet - like that time "Chris Jericho will appear on Impact"... and it was just a one-time airing of a Fozzy video at the end of the show, even though everyone knows that wasn't what was being implied.


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It was like that from the start. They dropped “change the world” thing very quickly when it was apparent that it wouldn’t change much of anything. It doesn’t help that they lied about things, but the chief problem is that it is bad.
"Sports-Based presentation!" - legless guy in a battle royal.
"Wins and losses matter!" - rankings and wins are only mentioned when convenient for the here-and-now, and after a specific match happens where it was a big deal? Very small print in the entrance lower third.
"Faces and heels are tired old tropes!" - almost everyone that is even in an angle is in an angle about who is and isn't friends anymore. Because being a saint or an irredeemable shithead doesn't matter in this morality play; only if they're still friends or not in a very slow burn that goes nowhere and nobody cares...

I had more shit written here, but I lost interest. I agree with you: chief problem is that it is bad. Followed closely by they don't know it's bad.

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Originally Posted by Ben Rodrigues View Post
He needs to do something to boost that live attendance. Has he thought about walking around with the AEW World Championship before shows and taking photos with the fans?
No, seriously, Tony should hire Dixie.

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Originally Posted by Verbose Minch View Post
The Garcia thing is so frustrating. Like why is this happening? Garcia has never drawn a dime, and never will unless he gets on the gas.

Swerve VS Penta is oood though, looking forward to that
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Garcia’s not w/o talent. He’s just not there yet and has been presented like a joke. People aren’t going to be invested in the idea of him challenging for the World Title, especially when everybody knows the belt is no danger of changing hands.

Swerve vs. Penta isn’t my thing. If it’s yours — cool. But again, there’s no drama in this because they’re just going to flip for 20 mins before Swerve wins because he has a match against Hang-on Page coming up.
These two things perfectly encapsulate major AEW problems - low stakes matches you can predict the outcome for and repeated flip-o-thons where the winner doesn't matter as long as everyone goes through tables or into thumbtacks for a "holy shit" chant and everyone "gets their shit in".

Quote:
Originally Posted by XL View Post
Remember when they had a ranking system to determine who got a shot at the champ? Now Garcia has a title shot because reasons.
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Originally Posted by screech View Post
lol the rankings! CM Punk was still listed as number one like 6 months after he'd been suspended.

Update: he still is number one because the rankings haven't been updated since August 31, 2022.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Rodrigues View Post
That's not how rankings should work. Almost always you should beat someone ranked to move into the rankings. Beating nobodies shouldn't get you ranked.

Back when I cared I noticed CM Punk beat numerous people when he first joined AEW some of whom were ranked. Quite frustrating to see that he wasn't getting ranked. This changed when he said at the press conference that he wanted to be AEW Champion.
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If Gabe couldnt get rankings over no one can
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Ill never forget when Tony Nese was a top 5 contender for the World Title based on a bunch of dark wins lol
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Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
Holy shit. The rankings were always a bad idea. Was always going to force them into corners. Limits the stories you can tell and makes it hard to shift gears and directions with guys.
I disagree. They were a great idea... but here comes the qualifier... IF they were consistent.

Similar to how WWE has been off and on again with the idea of a Brand Split, or whenever they decide that Tag Teams are in any way important enough to actually push beyond two teams specifically having a feud for a few months then all the teams fucking off to obscurity or fighting against randomly thrown together teams of singles, AEW just never follows through with anything worth following through with for future use. They want to spend all their currency of "set up a potentially cool moment" without earning the moment by making people that fans want to see in and of themselves.

If they maintained consistency on rankings and win/loss records - two of the things the company sold themselves on - they should have some folks there to keep track of this shit and help book longer term than some random match in the next two weeks at Daily's Place. Folks who are getting positioned to be stars should be getting more wins than shitheads who are middling or jobbing... and the only consistent "jobbers" are Fuego Del Sol and the dudes from Bear Country. Everyone else they pretend are all upper midcard to main event when that can't even work in the loosest of theories. Nobody gives a shit about The Best Friends, but they're boys with Orange Cassidy, so they're all unilaterally supposedly championship material. Whatever you feel about guys like Tony Neese or Keith Lee, they came in with a bunch of buzz that was pissed away by AEW inside of a month. Same with guys in-house like Hobbs and Wardlow.

At this point, after 4 years, a Powerhouse Hobbs and Wardlow collision (no pun intended) should have been considered a must-see inevitability for the AEW Championship. Instead, both guys are spinning wheels, have met in nothing matches and battle royals umpteen times with meh results because "that wasn't important right then" (and what I mean is like, Wardlow tossing Hobbs from one such battle royal because Hobbs was just some random obstacle in the way of the then-angle Wardlow was in with someone else. So, instead of teasing or placing the seeds for a showdown one day and being denied because it was inturrupted, it became evident to fans that Hobbs wasn't worth Wardlow's time from the presentation).

They consistently find new and unique ways to make people not care about any of the talent, be it from Tony or the person's own creative dumbness. Or both.
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Old 11-07-2023, 01:59 AM   #15155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sepholio View Post
He was better as the BEARCAT. Yeah, I said it. So what? Wanna fight about it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verbose Minch View Post
Nobody would dare dispute the power of BEARCAT Keith Lee
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveWadding View Post
I don't know how someone who describes themself as verbose cannot identify the indubitably insatiable verbosity of the indescribable, incomparable Limitless Keith Lee.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastardikai View Post
This feels like what me on the best (?) Booking posts.

Also, last Keith Lee match I saw was the one where Zicky Dice bounced off of him and put himself into the Spirit Bomb.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verbose Minch View Post
I've identified it because I'm also an autistic grandpa (and I stink)
I can't believe I'm about to defend Keith Lee. I already made my feelings known since he got plucked from Ring of Honor to a NXT developmental deal, but for the uninitiated: I could not tell the difference between him and Shane Taylor. They were both just two big black "former NFL" fuckers that were respectively shaped like a pear (Taylor) and an upside down pear (Lee). They had nothing of note: no real gimmick besides being big, no visible charisma, and aside from the tried and tested "agile for a big man" shit done to death since Bam Bam Bigelow, nothing of note. I didn't get why WWE bothered to sign one and not the other. To me, it should have been both or neither.

Then, Keith Lee started getting over in NXT. I even said then that I personally didn't get it, but I could see by reaction that the fans obviously wanted to see him. His entrance was over. His matches were over. Him talking was over. Fans ate all of it up.

So, WWE did what WWE does; and fucked all of it up. Changed his name. Changed his music. Changed his ring gear. Tried to change how he talked. Essentially, everything that was already over: blow it up and start again. For no real fucking reason.

So, then AEW. He comes in with all that behind him in terms of smark knowledge. Fans basically get the NXT Keith Lee that was over... just for him to disappear in short order. Then randomly tagging with Swerve. Then beaten to hell by two guys who end up released, so, guys that essentially don't exist. Both he and Shane Taylor now work for TK, and, unless there is something currently going on from Rampage or the unwatched ROH online shit, still haven't addressed their history in spite of having a random-ass six man tag on opposite sides for one of the handful of AEW PPVs that happended fairly recently. Don't even remember which one.

All of this that I mentioned is all stuff that isn't Keith's fault. There's prob'ly other things that is. Whatever. Again, never really been my cup of tea. He was always the poor man's Mark Henry to me. But to go from everyone loving you to nobody knowing you exist outisde of the recent internet drama where people confused him with the food critic Keith Lee. How the fuck does a company do that? Repeatedly? It isn't a one off, because the same thing happened with The Hardy Boyz. And Tony Neese. And Undisputed Era... etc., etc. Feels like only a matter of time before they find a way to fuck up Edge Adam Copeland and Christian.

Even people the AEW community consider "big stars" of the international variety never show up in big star capacity. Guys like Okada or Osprey look like they just rolled in off the flight they crossed the pond in in travelling sweats so it takes less time to get through security instead of anything identifiable. The few times they appear, any New Japan guy looks more like a guardrail hopping fan than RoH Kevin Steen did.
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Old 11-07-2023, 12:41 PM   #15156
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My primary issue with Keith Lee isn't even his fault. COVID fucked him up bad. WWE wanted him to get into better shape, he didn't or couldn't. He also couldn't adapt. Meanwhile, we have an Indy darling who did adapt and went from pudgy badass with an awful ring name to a brutal killer with a slightly less awful name, and he will be the measuring stick for both IC Champions and foreign heels for years to come. But, if what I'm hearing is true... poor Walter... (Famous last words.)

The match with Dice was sad.
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Old 11-07-2023, 01:58 PM   #15157
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Wait, what’s this with Gunther?
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Old 11-07-2023, 02:04 PM   #15158
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Keith Lee has never been good. He doesn’t have it mentally, never mind physically. His psychology is awful. He’s a fat dude who flips. The insult used to be levied at Samoa Joe back in the day just because he could fly. But Joe can put together a match. Keith Lee is spot, spot, spot. His promos suck too. I don’t think he needs to sound like The Hulk like Cornette suggested. But he needs to sound like someone who is in the world of physical competition trying to promote a match. You can be intelligent and not sound like a fucking waste. Again, Joe.

Then factor in that the guy gives off the visual impression he is about to have a heart attack when he goes out there. I’m not trying to be morbidly funny. He starts heaving and he goes clammy. He fucking sucks at this. And if he drops dead on the job, no one is going to be surprised.
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Old 11-07-2023, 02:07 PM   #15159
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Here are the problems with rankings:

What’s LA Knight’s record like? Do you want to smack people in the face with him having won maybe one match in 2023 before SummerSlam? What kind of title challenger for Roman Reigns is that? Yet he’s hot and people want to buy him.

Conversely, look at Gunther’s record. How do you justify not giving him a title shot?

It always gets in the way of your creative agency. Always. If someone is getting over, they’re getting over. The rank becomes redundant.
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Old 11-07-2023, 02:21 PM   #15160
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Gunter has "it" from curtain to curtain, and makes it look effortless.
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