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Old 08-25-2011, 05:03 PM   #1761
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Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
Doomsday would only work as somebody's muscle. Perhaps refashioned as a Lexcorp experiment, Brainiac's pet, or even Darksied's minion, but he will never headline as the main villain. He was simply a gimmick, even if Death of Superman was a historic thing.
And honestly, have you read Death of Superman lately? It was fucking horrible.
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Old 08-25-2011, 05:08 PM   #1762
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The last time I read DOS was something like ten years ago, but I loved it back then.

Superman/Doomsday was pretty epic too. Probably why Doomsday is one of the only Supes villains I care about.

Just think he would be a badass monster to see on screen, and the fight would rage across the city with shit-loads of destruction etc, would look pretty sweet.

Or Darkseid.
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Old 08-25-2011, 05:09 PM   #1763
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Nowhere Man: Just curious, is Superman your favourite character?

I remember someone in this thread said this a while back. Can't remember who it was and too lazy to read through the thread to find it.
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Old 08-25-2011, 05:11 PM   #1764
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Yes, Superman is my favorite character. Has been since I read Kingdom Come about ten years ago. That's why I get so bent out of shape when people want to just take the Michael-Bay-Transformers approach to the franchise and dilute it down to just monsters and fight scenes for the sake of people who aren't even all that interested in it.
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Old 08-25-2011, 05:15 PM   #1765
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Well, my question had nothing to do with you 'getting bent out of shape'... I was simply curious.

Anywho... Gimme Doomsday or Darkseid and let Michael Bay direct it with 17 explosions-per-minute and I will be happy.
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Old 08-25-2011, 05:17 PM   #1766
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Superman is one of my favorites, though lately I've been a Thor mark.
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Old 08-25-2011, 05:23 PM   #1767
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Having read Superman comics, I can whole heartedly agree with what NM is saying and state that whos idea it was to make Superman Returns deserves to burn to death in a boiling pit of tar while fireants are poured over their face and ghost chili sauce is shot up their nose.
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Old 08-25-2011, 05:23 PM   #1768
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though lately I've been a Thor mark.
Have you heard what's happening with Thor soon?

SPOILER: show
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Old 08-25-2011, 05:25 PM   #1769
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That doesn't really explain much. Though I haven't read Fear Itself so I dunno.
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Old 08-25-2011, 05:27 PM   #1770
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I'm a mainstream Thor mark. I can't be arsed to follow the funny books. I do know Thor got his ass handed to him by Odin in Fear Itself 1. I liked that.
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Old 08-25-2011, 05:29 PM   #1771
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Oh, that Tanarus picture didn't show up for me the first time... still doesn't explain much to me though.
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Old 08-25-2011, 05:30 PM   #1772
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Well, my question had nothing to do with you 'getting bent out of shape'... I was simply curious.

Anywho... Gimme Doomsday or Darkseid and let Michael Bay direct it with 17 explosions-per-minute and I will be happy.
Didn't mean to come off as condescending, and I apologize if I did.

It's just....I've been a hardcore fan of the comics for about a decade, I've read some absolutely phenomenal stories, and some total garbage ones. I've seen the best and worst of what the franchise has to offer, and when you've got a series that's been around for over seventy years, it's got an awful lot. There are tons of great characters and villains, lots of great stories from guys like Elliot Maggin and Alan Moore and Mark Waid that delve into all the things that work and don't work about Superman, lots of creative plots and problems that only someone as powerful and implaccable as Superman could solve. The potential for truly epic, high-concept storytelling is there, and you can do so much with that franchise that you just can't do with someone like Batman or Iron Man.

And yet, from just about every discussion I've had with non-fans, all they see is a two-dimensional strongman who wins all of his fights without breaking a sweat, and that the only villain ever worth using is the big dumb monster who's only famous for killing him in a comic that was frankly pretty terrible and only existed as a publicity stunt in the first place. The common complaints about the \S/ mythos ("he's too powerful, he's too much of a goody-two-shoes, how come nobody notices Clark is just Superman with glasses," etc) have been addressed over and over and over and over and over in the comics, but since most people don't read the comics, the common perception of the character never changes.

It's just really frustrating, trying to get people to see what you like in a character or a story that is really only ever discussed as fodder for people to bash it when comparing it to 'cooler' series.
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Old 08-25-2011, 05:45 PM   #1773
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Oh, that Tanarus picture didn't show up for me the first time... still doesn't explain much to me though.
Yeah, I had temporarily forgot to put the second image in...
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Old 08-25-2011, 05:49 PM   #1774
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Here’s the thing: I am sick and tired of super-heroes who aren’t super and aren’t heroes, but more, I’m sick and tired of Hollywood blaming us for their failures. I am sick and tired of hearing various Hollywood studio execs who are as disconnected from the reality of middle-American taste as Rick Perry is from Christianity excusing the poor performance of their ill-executed product by tacitly blaming you, me, and everyone else of us who didn’t pay to see their garbage. Catwoman fails? Instead of, perhaps, just perhaps, acknowledging that the movie is a piece of excrement unworthy of use as fertilizer, they conclude instead that a female lead can’t open a movie unless her name is Jolie. So now we’re not only guilty of not being willing to pay for 90 minutes of intellectual abuse, we’re all apparently sexist jerks, as well. The problem with Green Lantern’s performance at the box office is that it’s not “gritty” enough? I don’t think so.

Art – and even if that art is commercial art, produced for entertainment – feeds and is fed by the society that consumes it. So I ask you, right now, looking around you, what flavor of escapism will go down best with you? In an era of terror alerts and bipartisan dysfunction, of rising hate and blossoming intolerance, of bank failure and wide-spread, global unemployment and recession, is gritty really what we need?

Look, I like gritty. I write gritty. There is a time and a place for gritty. I’ll take my Batman gritty, thank you, and I will acknowledge that such a portrayal means that my 11 year old has to wait before he sees The Dark Knight. But if Hollywood turns out a Superman movie that I can’t take him to? They’ve done something wrong. Superman is many, many things. Gritty he is not, something that Richard Donner certainly understood.

(Pet peeve time: for the contingent out there who sneer at heroes like Superman and Wonder Woman and Captain America, those icons who still, at their core, represent selfless sacrifice for the greater good, and who justify their contempt by saying, oh, it’s so unrealistic, no one would ever be so noble… grow up. Seriously. Cynicism is not maturity, do not mistake the one for the other. If you truly cannot accept a story where someone does the right thing because it’s the right thing to do, that says far more about who you are than these characters.)

This is not an argument of era or audience sophistication. Sophistication does not negate sincerity, nor does it even deny it, as the Captain America movie proves. Sophistication demands better storytelling, clearer motivation, purer intention. “Gritty” is an apologist word in this sense, used in the place of “realism.” We don’t go to the movies for “realism.” This is why documentaries aren’t the major product in the theaters. Sophistication does not demand realism; it demands smart.
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Old 08-25-2011, 05:56 PM   #1775
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I think some of us like Superman at the more intellectual capacity. The problem is that..not to sound like a Debby Downer..I just don't see that translating well in film. Maybe I am too negative. I love the Kingdom Come Superman and a lot of other stories he has over the years. Superman #666 was a great story IMO. I wish they would have expanded it longer than one issue. Made me feel like Superman is the John Cena of comics and he might crack some day.
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Old 08-25-2011, 05:58 PM   #1776
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Superman is not the Cena of comics. Batman is. Let's be honest here.
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Old 08-25-2011, 07:00 PM   #1777
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And honestly, have you read Death of Superman lately? It was fucking horrible.
Hey, I love the Death and Return of Superman story. Awesome stuff.
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Old 08-25-2011, 08:26 PM   #1778
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Old 08-25-2011, 09:08 PM   #1779
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Like seriously, check out this fan-made Superman/Doomsday video. Pretty awesome video to be honest. But come on, who wouldn't want to see a proper, big-screen big-budget version of this? Would be incredible! Since they can afford to make a few changes to cater to non-comic fans, you could either replace Doomsday with Darkseid, who maybe have Doomsday as one of DS's generals or something?

Either way, this video has me sold on why I want to see a Superman movie with a fucking beast of a villain, and not another human.
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Old 08-25-2011, 09:13 PM   #1780
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Also, I don't think the Death of Superman story would be any good for a movie, but that video is really epic and dramatic. Really feel for Superman, it's like he has no choice but to face this fuck-off monster of a beast, Doomsday, because he's the only one who can.
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Old 08-25-2011, 09:29 PM   #1781
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I miss Brandon Routh.
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Old 08-26-2011, 10:23 PM   #1782
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Catching up with DC Comics again. Feeling great depths of sadness as I read the last stories of whatever series.
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Old 08-27-2011, 09:45 PM   #1783
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THANK HEAVENS

It has been confirmed that there will be a Justice Society of America series in the DCnU, written by James Robinson no less.

The catch is that it will be set on Earth-2.

So who knows which characters make the cut, or if they decide to bring dead ones back to life.
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Old 08-28-2011, 12:25 AM   #1784
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Went to the comic store the other day and "changed" my mind about the reboot. Ended up subscribing to JLA and Batman.
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Old 08-28-2011, 12:51 PM   #1785
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You got sucked in by the hype.
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Old 08-28-2011, 01:11 PM   #1786
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You're dead to me, Luigi.
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Old 08-28-2011, 07:02 PM   #1787
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Just the first 3 issues of each.
If they are good then I will come here and share my discovery.
If they are bad, I will just delete that post and this one to prove that it never happened ..
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Old 08-28-2011, 07:12 PM   #1788
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I also subscribed to Justice League, Batman and Action Comics. The idea of a new DCU doesn't bother me as much, I already know that comics always use sales gimmicks and sometimes they happen to churn out good stories from whatever gimmick they do, depending on the creative team.

I tend to go for creative team and characters I like, so yeah.
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Old 08-28-2011, 09:35 PM   #1789
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Does anyone remember the heroes reborn deal Marvel pulled like 15 years ago?
I have some of the issues still. Remember it sucked. The reboot is kinda reminding me of that ordeal.

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Old 08-29-2011, 02:52 AM   #1790
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Read the last of the old universe Batman stuff. Really gonna miss:

- Dick Grayson as Batman
- Dick Grayson and Damien as Batman and Robin
- Stephanie Brown as Batgirl
- Stephanie Brown and Robin interactions
- Red Robin as he currently exists
- Birds of Prey core team of Oracle/Black Canary/Huntress/Lady Blackhawk
- Barbara Gordon being a cripple
- Harley Quinn being Harley Quinn
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Old 08-29-2011, 03:18 AM   #1791
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Don't worry--they'll all be back within a year or two when the novelty of the reboot wears off and they try to spike sales again by reintroducing the 'classic' DCU in yet another gimmicky event.
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Old 08-29-2011, 03:36 AM   #1792
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I assume it will revert back somewhat eventually, but never to the current status quo.
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Old 08-29-2011, 04:11 AM   #1793
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It'll probably be like the post-Infinite Crisis continuity, where they just kind of cherry-picked what stuff they wanted to bring back from pre-CoIE, what stuff they wanted to keep from post-CoIE, what new stuff to bring in, etc. I imagine when they inevitably undo the reboot (my guess is so it'll line up with Detective Comics #900--no way in hell they'd skip out on that milestone), it'll be a mish-mash of pre- and post-reboot DCU.
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Old 08-29-2011, 04:14 AM   #1794
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It already is a mish-mash. Some titles are getting a full reboot. Others like Green Lantern seems to be getting no reboot at all.
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Old 08-29-2011, 04:48 AM   #1795
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Which kind of seems pointless to me. Why bother doing a company-wide mass reboot, changing flagship characters like Superman to the point where they're barely recognizable, but then leave one of your biggest franchises untouched? I understand that, other than Dick and Tim and Barbara all getting demoted, Batman's continuity is largely unchanged too.

I guess it could be said that those franchises were already rebooted and retconned enough in recent years (all of the huge changes Johns has done to GL since Rebirth, Morrison's stuff on Batman like adding in a bastard son, etc), but then it just comes off as certain writers getting to have their works set in stone while everyone else's gets thrown into the bin.
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Old 08-29-2011, 12:59 PM   #1796
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Well, Geoff Johns and Grant Morrison had the largest creative input into the reboot... and they were both probably like "Yeah, let's reboot everything.... oh, but except for the books that we are working on. We don't want to lose all that stuff we did. Screw those other guys though."
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Old 08-29-2011, 06:13 PM   #1797
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DC wouldn't have any of these problems if they just did a live-action Superman/Doomsday movie.
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Old 08-29-2011, 06:26 PM   #1798
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Doomsday sucks. Get over it.
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Old 08-30-2011, 01:59 AM   #1799
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Old 08-30-2011, 02:18 AM   #1800
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Hmm...
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