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Old 09-05-2015, 06:05 AM   #18921
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In all honesty, Cena needs to stop trying to impress the IWC by introducing "cool moves" into his moveset. He's the biggest "wrestling" star of this generation because he's the best "sports entertainer" in the world. Fuck the haters who want you to be more like Cesaro or Daniel Bryan or some other guy who's adored by many wrestling nerds and unknown by a large majority of human beings who have cable TV/the USA network. Just keep making that money, money. (Yeah, yeah.)
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Old 09-05-2015, 06:31 AM   #18922
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
In all honesty, Cena needs to stop trying to impress the IWC by introducing "cool moves" into his moveset. He's the biggest "wrestling" star of this generation because he's the best "sports entertainer" in the world. Fuck the haters who want you to be more like Cesaro or Daniel Bryan or some other guy who's adored by many wrestling nerds and unknown by a large majority of human beings who have cable TV/the USA network. Just keep making that money, money. (Yeah, yeah.)
Cena wants to improve himself and actually prove his detractors wrong, something no other "face of the company" has ever really done. I fail to see why he should stop doing so. If he can win over a few of the IWC fans like myself and still keep his legion of children behind him why not do it? It's not like becoming a better and more entertaining wrestler is going to make his old fans stop liking him.
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Old 09-05-2015, 07:35 AM   #18923
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smelly Meatball View Post
More on the injury Cena suffered during yesterday's house show.

Quote:
Originally Posted by F4W
According to live reports, Cena was doing the Infrared (a sunset flip move popularized by Amazing Red and Rey Mysterio Jr.) and landed on his head. They went right to the finish with Cena winning, and officials helped him in the ring.

More on this story as it develops.
I blame Kevin Owens for this.
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Old 09-05-2015, 09:00 AM   #18924
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishbone View Post
Cena wants to improve himself and actually prove his detractors wrong, something no other "face of the company" has ever really done. I fail to see why he should stop doing so. If he can win over a few of the IWC fans like myself and still keep his legion of children behind him why not do it? It's not like becoming a better and more entertaining wrestler is going to make his old fans stop liking him.
It may cause him to break his neck and end his career. But fuck it. Gotta impress some uppity internet fans who don't think he does enough cool rasslin' moves.
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Old 09-05-2015, 12:39 PM   #18925
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If he could actually pull off the moves correctly and it made sense then I'm with him

Him doing sloppy cruiser weight moves is stupid
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Old 09-05-2015, 02:53 PM   #18926
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Always cringed when he'd try a hurricanranna. He doesn't need to do all these fancy moves. He can go when he needs to and has more than enough stellar matches without flashy moves. I'd also like to see him ditch the top rope leg drop. Unnecessary.
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Old 09-05-2015, 02:57 PM   #18927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool King View Post
I blame Kevin Owens for this.
Nope. Owens took it perfectly on two straight ppvs. It's Cena's fault.
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Old 09-05-2015, 03:19 PM   #18928
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At least his springboard stunner looks nice maybe 2/10 times. The sunset flip bomb thing always looked like ass, especially since Goldust was around doing the same move and looked crisp as hell doing it.
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Old 09-05-2015, 04:08 PM   #18929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Gunn View Post
Whenever Cena gets injured, they always play it up to be much worse than it is, so he looks like a fucking Superhero when he comes back in 2 weeks completely fine.
Nah, man. He always rushes back from injuries that would keep other guys out for way longer. Don't think they've EVER "played up" any of his legit injuries. Why would they?

Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
It may cause him to break his neck and end his career. But fuck it. Gotta impress some uppity internet fans who don't think he does enough cool rasslin' moves.
I may not care for his character at all but I've always been fine with him being himself move-set wise. Only thing is I don't get it when they decide he needs to do a "Super" AA from the top or second rope. As it is, just in the ring normally it puts his opponents down for the 3 like 9.7 times out of 10.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon View Post
Nope. Owens took it perfectly on two straight ppvs. It's Cena's fault.
Completely agree.
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Old 09-05-2015, 04:29 PM   #18930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAMN iNATOR View Post
Only thing is I don't get it when they decide he needs to do a "Super" AA from the top or second rope. As it is, just in the ring normally it puts his opponents down for the 3 like 9.7 times out of 10.
1 out of 10 the first time he hits it
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Old 09-05-2015, 05:19 PM   #18931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
In all honesty, Cena needs to stop trying to impress the IWC by introducing "cool moves" into his moveset. He's the biggest "wrestling" star of this generation because he's the best "sports entertainer" in the world. Fuck the haters who want you to be more like Cesaro or Daniel Bryan or some other guy who's adored by many wrestling nerds and unknown by a large majority of human beings who have cable TV/the USA network. Just keep making that money, money. (Yeah, yeah.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
It may cause him to break his neck and end his career. But fuck it. Gotta impress some uppity internet fans who don't think he does enough cool rasslin' moves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewAllenHanso View Post
If he could actually pull off the moves correctly and it made sense then I'm with him

Him doing sloppy cruiser weight moves is stupid
I don't like that he used to always say he doesn't care that people boo him or don't like him yet he's acknowledged it many times in the past in not only his promos but in his entrances as well and also tries to add new moves. He should just ignore the haters and focus on doing promos that aren't goofy which I feel that he's improved on. The problem originally wasn't about him adding new moves it's about his selling of moves and the fluidity/execution of his moves. Now instead of doing that he's just adding moves to impress his haters which creates a different problem in itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post
At least his springboard stunner looks nice maybe 2/10 times. The sunset flip bomb thing always looked like ass, especially since Goldust was around doing the same move and looked crisp as hell doing it.
I'm usually one to say something that isn't in favor of Cena but I think his past execution of that move looks pretty decent, well at least the part where he's in motion and not the set-up to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Gunn View Post
Whenever Cena gets injured, they always play it up to be much worse than it is, so he looks like a fucking Superhero when he comes back in 2 weeks completely fine.
Unless I see it from another angle it doesn't look like he landed on his head or anything. Looks like either he was flipping and his head and neck jammed up against Owens' right leg or Cena just got the wind knocked out of him from Kevin's fat ass falling right on top of him.
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Old 09-05-2015, 07:01 PM   #18932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post
At least his springboard stunner looks nice maybe 2/10 times. The sunset flip bomb thing always looked like ass, especially since Goldust was around doing the same move and looked crisp as hell doing it.
Cena's problem is he's too big mass-wise and not flexible enough to pull off those flips correctly. Every time he ends up compensating by jumping awkwardly get the momentum needed and screws up the normal flow/catch process for the other guy. Majority of the time it looks bad because the other guy had no time to readjust to it.

Same goes for the flying stunner since he's almost blind jumping into the spot most of the time.
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Old 09-05-2015, 08:05 PM   #18933
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if that is the actual plan. No offense to Corbin but that would be a huge disappointment in terms of reveals. Also a bit odd since he just recently started a heel run on NXT.
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Old 09-05-2015, 08:34 PM   #18934
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Old 09-05-2015, 08:39 PM   #18935
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Would have been a good combination I think.
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Old 09-05-2015, 10:22 PM   #18936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool King View Post
I blame Kevin Owens for this.
Please tell me that's your attempt at being funny?

How on earth was that Owen's fault? Taken the move tons of times without a hitch. You can plainly see Cena fucking it up.
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Old 09-05-2015, 10:32 PM   #18937
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Fuck me, Corbin is nowhere near ready. That's an awful idea.
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Old 09-05-2015, 10:51 PM   #18938
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There it is. You accused me of Triple H hate, but there's the truth of where your argument comes from on this. "Sting is just a guy." I'm not even the dude's biggest fan, but I've the two points I'd like to raise are this:

1) No, he's not.

2) Even if he were, wouldn't it be a good idea to try and present him like he was more than that?

I wonder if they pay Sting "just a guy" money? That'd be interesting. I wonder if Spike TV fronted TNA's paychecks to the man because he was "just a guy?" I think the evidence against Sting being "just a guy" is pretty overwhelming.
He's not "just a guy" in the sense that say Fandango is "just a guy". But what I'm trying to say is if you were to rank all the guys who are part time performers who appear basically only at Mania, Sting would be on the same level to me as a Chris Jericho. A big name, who can come in and work a program that means something, but not a Rock/HHH/Taker who can actually carry a long term program.

Plus, in a lot of ways HHH is more important than all those guys because he's a regular character on TV, and one who should command authority. Pardon the pun. Therefore, when I look at it long term, HHH winning was best because the long term money program is Rollins finally on upping HHH.

If you think Sting, would mean more for WWE business long term by beating HHH, thats cool, I just think you're way off base and letting some hatred for HHH get in the way.
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Old 09-05-2015, 10:58 PM   #18939
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Quote:
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Except it's not going down that way. If you remember back to late 2004, it was a sharply worded promo from Batista that made people go "Hang on -- this guy might be on to something." In the weeks leading up to his turn, Batista was made to look crafty, cunning and like a killer. Hell, he won the 2005 Royal Rumble. And when the turn came, he was a step ahead of Triple H and Ric Flair, who were trying to get Big Dave out of the picture.

What you have in Seth Rollins at the moment is a chickenshit who doesn't even care if he wins or loses matches (unless the title is on the line, of course), hides behind The Authority, and when they turn on him is suddenly going to become a ruthless killer again. OK. Let's see who buys it.

It's looking more like the Randy Orton/Triple H program of 2004, with Orton being a wormy deer in the headlights for most of it than the Badass Dave vs. Hunter feud of 2005, which was actually designed to get Batista over.

And, furthermore: Why are they trying to make Seth Rollins AFTER HE IS ALREADY THE MOTHERFUCKIN' WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION?!?! The shit makes no sense! For Triple H to bring a ruthless killer out in him after he's climbed to the top of the mountain? There's something else in common with the original Triple H vs. Randy Orton feud there.

The key to the success of the Triple H vs. Batista program was heat. The crowd was rabid for it because they were rabid for Big Dave, and they wanted to see someone finally get one over Triple H and Ric Flair. I can't see much heat coming from the guy in the suit with all the power kicking his chosen chickenshit heel while he's down amounting to much "YAY! Go...someone!" momentum. And I don't have too much faith in the company to get it right, because they just spent months having two heels do a story-time rivalry in the back, bickering like school children, which ultimately went nowhere (to this point in time, anyway).

Triple H and Seth Rollins are both great performers. The match itself will be good-to-great. Triple H also isn't going to let much he touches as an active wrestler in this day and age be the drizzling shits. I'm sure they'll save it to the point where people go "Hey, this is actually not bad." That being said, it won't make Seth as hot as he could be.
First, dont cloud the debate. At the end of the day we're just talking about whether or not it was the right call for HHH to go over Sting. I'm laying out reasons why it made sense - #1 it was the logical end to the Monday Night Wars storyline and #2 HHH needs to be kept strong he can give a meaningful rub to Rollins.

My comparison to Big Dave was just that he was a heel in Evolution for a long time, and only until just before they were ready to pull the trigger on a HHH-Bats feud did he start to do babyface things. The same could easily happen with Rollins, but we dont know the timeline of the program. Will HHH-Rollins happen at 32? Will it be later in 2016? Is it a Mania 33 fight? The timing will dictate when and if Rollins needs to change what he does in the ring (ie winning matches clean, standing up to HHH, etc). At some point though, I would assume Rollins will start becoming more of a babyface champion, at which point he will get screwed and plant the seeds for the fight with Hunter.
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Old 09-05-2015, 10:59 PM   #18940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian Rey View Post
If Sting is just a guy, why did the WWE still sign him 14 years later and why do they make the biggest fucking deal when he's around?
Because WWE is amazing at promotion. They wont sign a guy and put him in a fight at Mania, and say "here's a mediocre performer, come pay to see him". But when comparing his star power to that of Hunter, its not even close, Hunter wins hands down.
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Old 09-05-2015, 11:07 PM   #18941
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i'm sure it's been reported on here, but rasslemania 33 is gonna be in minnesota WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

anyone going is welcome to stay at my house. we can go together. no homo
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Old 09-05-2015, 11:30 PM   #18942
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I don't think you can argue against Stings star power like that CyNick. He was the face of WCW when it was drawing 5 and 6 in the ratings at the peak of the Monday night wars. HHH wasn't the face and was probably like 6 or 7th in the pecking order really when WWE was experiencing similar popularity.

Sure, right now, HHH is a bigger star. But in the grand scheme of things? No.
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Old 09-05-2015, 11:34 PM   #18943
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Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon View Post
Nope. Owens took it perfectly on two straight ppvs. It's Cena's fault.
Hey now, if you can blame Swagger for Barrett's injury when it was Barrett's fault, then I can blame Owens when it's Cena's fault.

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Originally Posted by Disturbed316 View Post
Please tell me that's your attempt at being funny?

How on earth was that Owen's fault? Taken the move tons of times without a hitch. You can plainly see Cena fucking it up.
In future, you should chill and wait for the people to answer to your questions before you neg rep them.
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Old 09-05-2015, 11:34 PM   #18944
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I totally forgot how much of a precious darling Owens is to some people in the "IWC".

Silly me.
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Old 09-05-2015, 11:37 PM   #18945
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When was the last time Triple H was legit the hottest act in the business? The answer is never. He's not a bigger star than Sting no matter how CyNick tries to argue, and he's never been on the level Sting was. Guy's going into his 4th decade in the business and he's still a big deal.

If he was "just a guy" why would WWE promote him or fall over themselves to sign him? You're contradicting yourself. He's not this huge draw or big star, but he's gonna be treated as such to sell a match? Huh? If he wasn't a big deal, what's the point in paying top dollar for his likeness and putting him in a high profile match? That makes zero sense and honestly you're being pretty daft saying Hunter, who was, what, the number 4 guy in the company behind Rock, Austin and Taker. Arguably number three at best, is a bigger star than the top babyface in the history o WCW and one of the most popular superstars of all time.

It's not even fucking close.
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Old 09-06-2015, 01:39 AM   #18946
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Lies Triple H was the MAN from 2002-2005.

Sting was a bust as a World Champion every time he had it. If Sting was the man then WCW wouldn't have needed Hulk Hogan.
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Old 09-06-2015, 01:50 AM   #18947
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Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon View Post
Lies Triple H was the MAN from 2002-2005.

Sting was a bust as a World Champion every time he had it. If Sting was the man then WCW wouldn't have needed Hulk Hogan.
by default isn't the same thing.
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Old 09-06-2015, 01:52 AM   #18948
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He was super over in the march to SummerSlam 99 also. He was the face of the new "Rock N' Wrestling Connection" with Chyna in that time frame too.
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Old 09-06-2015, 02:08 AM   #18949
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He was never the face of anything. Raw was the inferior brand through 2005, and by that time they handed the reigns to Cena and Hunter was once again second fiddle. Then they moved him to Smackdown where he was a big fish in a little point


Sting's runs as champion was a reflection of the creative team behind him, not the status not drawing power of the man himself.

How are people trying to argue this?
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Old 09-06-2015, 02:35 AM   #18950
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I'd also like to point out Brock Lesnar was THE MAN from 2002-2004, main eventing shows with the likes of Kurt Angle and the Undertaker while Triple H was wrestling old WCW wash outs and burying Booker T in the mid card.
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Old 09-06-2015, 02:53 AM   #18951
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I don't think STD is being serious, Rey.
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Old 09-06-2015, 03:01 AM   #18952
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I need a breakdown of Raw Vs. Smackdown PPVs buys.
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Old 09-06-2015, 03:10 AM   #18953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
He's not "just a guy" in the sense that say Fandango is "just a guy". But what I'm trying to say is if you were to rank all the guys who are part time performers who appear basically only at Mania, Sting would be on the same level to me as a Chris Jericho. A big name, who can come in and work a program that means something, but not a Rock/HHH/Taker who can actually carry a long term program.

Plus, in a lot of ways HHH is more important than all those guys because he's a regular character on TV, and one who should command authority. Pardon the pun. Therefore, when I look at it long term, HHH winning was best because the long term money program is Rollins finally on upping HHH.

If you think Sting, would mean more for WWE business long term by beating HHH, thats cool, I just think you're way off base and letting some hatred for HHH get in the way.
I think people have already addressed the "Sting as a star" point effectively already. You can see Sting at that level, but you'd saying that subjectively in the face of a fair amount of objective evidence; and I'd still argue that even if Sting weren't on the level of a Rock/Triple H/Undertaker (not sure all three of those parts are equal, but whatever), then it'd be smart business to at least present him as being on that level.

But some people just don't like money.

Sure, Triple H is probably going to be running around more regularly on WWE TV. That doesn't mean Sting's appearances can't be special on their own, or make a shit-tonne of money in the immediate future. You also don't know the schedule of Sting. The guy is only a few years removed from being a fairly "regular" part-timer. Some people seem to have this idea that the guy only has one or two matches left. That might be the case, but the idea that Sting can't be a regular, or at least make enough appearances to justify a huge WrestleMania win isn't substantiated yet. Also, I'd argue that it might have even been worth giving Sting the one win against Triple H, even if it was his only match.

You also have to keep in mind that -- star-power aside -- Triple H is the heel. Keeping your heels strong is definitely a good idea, but at the end of the day the pay-off is in the babyface getting some vengeance. Generally speaking, people weren't buying WrestleMania to see Triple H beat Sting. It's like going into McDonald's, ordering a burger and getting punched in the face. Long-term maybe the punch is better for you, but it's not what you asked for and you won't be back.

But some people don't like money.

There is some money in Rollins upping Triple H, you are right. But you need to get to the point where there is a conflict that people can really bite into. It's not dirtying the discussion to point out that Seth Rollins has been heeling it up as much as anyone in his position is allowed to, whilst Triple H has been painted as the rightful hero and the true man. This is despite the fact that Rollins holds the World Heavyweight Championship and Triple H is practically retired.

If you want Rollins to start doing face things after the turn, that's cool -- but does it make sense for it to happen that way? Doesn't that go completely against who Rollins has become since selling out and joining The Authority? And we don't really have a reason to hate Triple H within the context of this story. If Triple H turned on Rollins on RAW, he'd probably get cheered for it. So maybe the plan is for Rollins to be the heel in the program? Okay, but why not build him up as a credible heel right now, instead of having him dance around active stars in order to get to the part-timer? And if the idea is to have Rollins come out of the Triple H program a more credible performer, isn't that a move towards the face end of the spectrum anyway?

Again, it's not Triple H hate. I've wanted to see Triple H vs. Dean Ambrose and Triple H vs. Bray Wyatt for AGES. I don't want to see Triple H win either of those matches, and I don't think he needs to win them to have his heat as the guy with all the corporate power in the world. Vince McMahon didn't need to win a bunch to still draw money with Austin.

I've already explained about the build to Triple H/Batista and how it's different. The way they are going about a potential face turn for Rollins is more like what they did with Randy Orton or Alberto Del Rio. Those were great, weren't they?
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Old 09-06-2015, 03:12 AM   #18954
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In all honesty, Cena needs to stop trying to impress the IWC by introducing "cool moves" into his moveset. He's the biggest "wrestling" star of this generation because he's the best "sports entertainer" in the world. Fuck the haters who want you to be more like Cesaro or Daniel Bryan or some other guy who's adored by many wrestling nerds and unknown by a large majority of human beings who have cable TV/the USA network. Just keep making that money, money. (Yeah, yeah.)
I'm not against Cena expanding his moveset if he can do stuff safely, but the dude certainly doesn't need to bust out eight moves that should be finishers every match. No one needs to do that.
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Old 09-06-2015, 03:23 AM   #18955
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* The WWE puts no effort into SmackDown, which is a shame. I guess their thinking is probably that they know where it is ending up, so why put energy into the rest of 2015 for the brand? I hope they have stuff planned for 2016 though. SmackDown has needed its own identity since the end of the brand split. Yes, the show was already starting to slip, but they started pooling talent all together on RAW before it ended and, unless my memory is failing me, wasn't that to pad out RAW so it could go three hours? Treat a split seriously and it could work. Or don't even make the split official, but just have guys work programs almost exclusively on one show.

* I know people say that talent rises to the top and that you can't keep real stars down, but Cesaro's talent is what earned him the shots he has been getting. Bad booking is what sullied his original push last year. How can the WWE expect people to get behind the guy if he can't beat anyone?

* Los Matadores and Lucha Dragons are being wasted and Vince McMahon is worried about finding Hispanic stars. Righto.

* Baron Corbin would be a HORRIBLE choice to team with Ambrose & Reigns. I can only assume it is a joke by someone. First of all, Corbin is not ready. Secondly, he's a heel and has no charisma as a babyface. Thirdly, he's the LONE Wolf! How the fuck do you debut a LONE Wolf with people? Fourthly, he's not ready. The WWE are in a spot of bother with this, because you need to put The Wyatt Family over so that they can be taken seriously, but you're going to make whoever agrees to team with Ambrose & Reigns take a hit, as they will fail. It seems to fit Cesaro's gimmick of losing to join them, but the best choice is probably The Rock. Jimmy Uso would be unoffensive, but might be a let-down. Erick Rowan would work, but I don't know how over Rowan is going to get as a face. Might be better to have him turn on Ambrose & Reigns, but doesn't that make them look shit? Big Show or Mark Henry can be slipped in there, they can take the fall, then you can have Erick Rowan re-join The Family.
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Old 09-06-2015, 05:38 AM   #18956
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Pretty proud of myself: I just booked the Divas Division out to WrestleMania in my brain. I know that's not something to be "proud" of...
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Old 09-06-2015, 05:40 AM   #18957
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I'd have had them go 2-on-3 against the Wyatts; they know they're in over their heads but damn it, and will more than likely go down... But they're going down swinging. End it in a brawl and have somebody come out and help them in the post-match beat down. That way you're not setting yourself up for a letdown with the "surprise" partner. Unless they do have somebody lined up that will live up to billing.

Jericho?
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Old 09-06-2015, 05:41 AM   #18958
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Pretty proud of myself: I just booked the Divas Division out to WrestleMania in my brain. I know that's not something to be "proud" of...
Hey! It would be something to be proud of for, say, the WWE Creative Team.
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Old 09-06-2015, 05:42 AM   #18959
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That was probably the best way to do it, XL -- I agree. Reigns & Ambrose can lose in the handicap setting, but still look good fighting. Jericho would also make a great third man if they can't find anyone else.

Would love to see either Jericho vs. Ambrose or Jericho vs. Reigns down the line, by the way.
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Old 09-06-2015, 05:43 AM   #18960
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Hey! It would be something to be proud of for, say, the WWE Creative Team.
Lawl. I've got nothing to really add to that. Too depressed.
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