"100,001" Replies (Wrestling Forum)

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Noid Just for argument's sake: I'm listening to an old JR podcast right now where he says he took criticism for signing The Rock initially. That surely changed fairly early, but it's not like everyone in the WWE knew from day one, apparently.

Maybe there were some guys against it, but thats just speculation. Going by the TV that was presented, he was positioned to be the next one.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Noid I don't want Cesaro to be the World Champion right now. But I do want my fandom in him to be rewarded by seeing him stretch himself in ways that make me think "one day." Right now, I get hammered with this feeling that they want to see him fall flat on his face. You can say that as a viewer I am wrong, but it's only really professional wrestling that gets to say "You, the fan, are incorrect for feeling what you are feeling."

I like him too, a lot. But I still see holes in his game. On top of that, how did you feel about HHH when he was rolling around in slop. But you know what happened? He fought his way to the top. Talent wins out. We'll see what Cesaro really has.

Its like some people here want every guy with potential to get the Goldberg push.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Noid Tough Enough flopped. But Vince McMahon can't do wrong because he's a billionaire, right?

This is some sad attempt at debating.

Where did I ever say Vince was right 100% of the time?

Im saying I think he understands booking better than anyone else on the planet. Nobody is close. So if you give me the option of trusting Vince's opinion on someone or not, I will always side with him. Doesn't mean I expect to be right 100% of the time.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Maluco There is a lot of text and a lot of back and forward but the bottom line is that WWE TV is just not very good. It's repetitive, the angles are boring and can even hurt the people in them (see Rusev/Dolph) and yes, its smart to run your business geared towards kids who come out to see John Cena, he is great at that. But the TV is boring and stale and has been for a long time. So someone, somewhere is not talented enough to produce good, compelling TV.

And yet you continue to watch and always will. What a crap show.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Damian Rey CyNick swinging and missing in the point. What benefit did Owens receive after besting Cena in his debut match, only t lose every encounter thereafter, and is then cooled off into a heat less feud for a perceived lesser title? How is that booking progressive in any way? How would casual fan view Owens as anything more than a one hit wonder? And it's not just Owens that's been a victim of the stop/start push. Ambrose, Wyatt, Cesaro, Ziggler, Rusev, etc. All these young, fresh, talented newcomers who can't get out of the blocks because Vince and his "greatest promoter ever" booking won't take a chance on pushing any of them and sticking with it. How is Bray Wyatt not the top heel in the company? How did they fuck up a once incredibly refreshing, different heel? I mean, they know how top book right?

What benefit did Owens get from beating Cena? Check out his push vs that of Neville. That should help clarify things for ya. If it doesn't, there's little to no hope.

I like Wyatt too, but outside his entrance he's not there, his promos are death to the live audience WHAT?

Again, so of Wyatt, Cesaro, Ziggler, Ambrose, or Rusev who should be headlining right now? Would business be better with them on top instead of say Rollins? Got news for you, Rollins is better than all those guys right now. Thats why he is where he is, and they are where they are.

You're doing the sad typical IWC thing of thinking Vince doesnt want guys to become The Rock or Austin. You posting on a message board who stands to gain nothing from WWE success sees things clearer than the guy who's entire like is WWE? You see the absurdity of that thinking?

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon Beyond you in intelligence. Just because he's a good guy doesn't make him a good wrestler. John Cena sucks.

I crown you King of the Too Cool for School Crowd

[Damian Rey]

Originally Posted by The CyNick Enlighten me on his point He said Owens got screwed by going 1-2 against Cena How did Austin do going 0-2 vs Bret? You know the difference? Austin > Owens. Not Vince is a terrible booker. Typical of today's society, look to blame someone other than the dude in the mirror.

I think you're illiterate.

Except Kevin Owens' debut match saw him cleanly and convincingly defeat the top face in the industry. And therein lies the issues. They give the guy a rub of a lifetime, then bury him in consecutive losses, and now he's going after a different title in an afterthought match.

Where's the part where I said he was screwed? Austin isn't even remotely comparable. He lost to a roll up in a way that still protected him. He then wasn't subsequently fed to Bret in convincingly losing efforts. He lost a match that again protected him in a loss and ultimately made him due to not giving up and the match being called.

Owens, just like Rusev, lost consecutive matches in a manner that didn't protect them or elevate them, and were shortly bumped down the card into meaningless feuds that have only further diminished any momentum they gained after initially defeating Cena in their first encounter.

Imagine had Austin lost to Bret the first time, then again the following month, them getss bumped down the card and is no longer a featured player, instead feuding for the not so coveted European title.

How you could even remotely think Austin is comparable to any of the current young guys who've been stunted by awful booking decisions is beyond me.

[Maluco]

Originally Posted by The CyNick And yet you continue to watch and always will. What a crap show.

Literally said in that post above that I didn't watch. I have tried a few times but usually don't bother. Thought that was clear from the post. I think it is a crap show and I try to watch it from time to time, as a fan of wrestling, but its been a long time since I made it through a whole Raw.

[Damian Rey]

The hulu replay helps a ton.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Damian Rey I think you're illiterate. Where's the part where I said he was screwed? Austin isn't even remotely comparable. He lost to a roll up in a way that still protected him. He then wasn't subsequently fed to Bret in convincingly losing efforts. He lost a match that again protected him in a loss and ultimately made him due to not giving up and the match being called. Owens, just like Rusev, lost consecutive matches in a manner that didn't protect them or elevate them, and were shortly bumped down the card into meaningless feuds that have only further diminished any momentum they gained after initially defeating Cena in their first encounter. Imagine had Austin lost to Bret the first time, then again the following month, them getss bumped down the card and is no longer a featured player, instead feuding for the not so coveted European title. How you could even remotely think Austin is comparable to any of the current young guys who've been stunted by awful booking decisions is beyond me.

So did Owens lose matches 2 and 3 in 5 minute squashes? Because that would actually make your point. Oh whats that? That didnt happen... he kicked out of like 200 AA's? Hmmm.

In the first Bret-Austin fight Austin lost to a rollup, and it was done in a manner to make it look like Austin made a mistake. The 2nd fight was Bret beat the shit out of Austin, beat him literally to a pulp, the saving grace was they told the story that Austin was tough and refused to give up. But if you were to look at both matches, Austin was positioned to be closer to beating Bret the first time. If they did that today with Cena and Owens, the people like you would post "berrrrrrried" right after the fight.

Owens went from Cena to headlining the biggest NXT event in history to a match with Cesaro. Who should he have be put with after Cena?

And the difference between Austin and all these guys is that Austin proved he could hang with Bret. None of the guys today can hang with Cena. You know what is the most real promo that has been cut in the last few years? Its the one where Cena talks about wanting to pass the torch, but he's not just going to hand it over, someone needs to take it from him. In the promo he talks about how guys get a certain level of popularity, and they claim to be the next one. Then the match happens and all you hear is "Lets Go Cena, Cena Sucks". Cena might as well be wrestling a broom, because he's the one drawing the babyface AND the heel heat, and all these guys prove to be interchangeable. As a result, they go into the heap of guys who are interchangeable. Austin on the other hand was booked no differently than a guy like Kevin Owens, but he proved he could hang with the guy who was seen as the very best. Not only did he hang, but he started taking fans from him (hence the Mania double turn). Guys in this era have been given that chance, but they hit fly balls to the track when they are up to the plate. When someone hits a homerun, then they will be booked as star.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Maluco Literally said in that post above that I didn't watch. I have tried a few times but usually don't bother. Thought that was clear from the post. I think it is a crap show and I try to watch it from time to time, as a fan of wrestling, but its been a long time since I made it through a whole Raw.

So then you're opinion on any of this is rather irrelevant because by your own admission, you are watching very little. Its like reading 10 pages of a book and saying the storyline wasnt compelling enough.

[ron the dial]

I read the whole book and it isn't.

[DaveWadding]

Just FYI, I was a casual fan in 96 and I loved the Rock from day one (but I was like 10). Never got tired of him (loved the Nation over DX, even) and never turned on him. Loved Heel Rock.

[Damian Rey]

Originally Posted by The CyNick So did Owens lose matches 2 and 3 in 5 minute squashes? Because that would actually make your point. Oh whats that? That didnt happen... he kicked out of like 200 AA's? Hmmm. In the first Bret-Austin fight Austin lost to a rollup, and it was done in a manner to make it look like Austin made a mistake. The 2nd fight was Bret beat the shit out of Austin, beat him literally to a pulp, the saving grace was they told the story that Austin was tough and refused to give up. But if you were to look at both matches, Austin was positioned to be closer to beating Bret the first time. If they did that today with Cena and Owens, the people like you would post "berrrrrrried" right after the fight. Owens went from Cena to headlining the biggest NXT event in history to a match with Cesaro. Who should he have be put with after Cena? And the difference between Austin and all these guys is that Austin proved he could hang with Bret. None of the guys today can hang with Cena. You know what is the most real promo that has been cut in the last few years? Its the one where Cena talks about wanting to pass the torch, but he's not just going to hand it over, someone needs to take it from him. In the promo he talks about how guys get a certain level of popularity, and they claim to be the next one. Then the match happens and all you hear is "Lets Go Cena, Cena Sucks". Cena might as well be wrestling a broom, because he's the one drawing the babyface AND the heel heat, and all these guys prove to be interchangeable. As a result, they go into the heap of guys who are interchangeable. Austin on the other hand was booked no differently than a guy like Kevin Owens, but he proved he could hang with the guy who was seen as the very best. Not only did he hang, but he started taking fans from him (hence the Mania double turn). Guys in this era have been given that chance, but they hit fly balls to the track when they are up to the plate. When someone hits a homerun, then they will be booked as star.

Another swing and a miss. He was booked different in that he continued to be placed into relevant feuds that kept progressing his character. Owens for bumped down to Cesaro and again bumped into a baseless match work Ryback. When did Austin get moved down the card to feud with guys who've had zero direction? Oh, he didn't. That's right.

You're fucking daft if you think anyone outside of Cena has been given a legitimate opportunity. The guys he's wrestling are interchangeable because that's the way they are presented. How do you expect the talent move forward if they're suddenly dropped into feuds about losing their girlfriends or against a guy who's most recent success was being a tag team champion? Is that how they booked Austin into becoming a star?

Cena is also given the OPPORTUNITY to cut a heartfelt promo. Outside of Punk's pipe bomb when was the last time anyone was given ten minutes to just let loose and show some real personality instead of the same old tired pre written promo they've been doling out for years? Can you name one?

And please explain how going from beating the top face of the company, to the lose to him twice in consecutive matches, to headlining the developmental league show, to going on to face two guys who've done jack shit in the last number of years is in beneficial? Can you elaborate how that opportunity is the same as Austin and how that is being given a chance to "hit a homerun"? Because I'm baffled as to how that's supposed to help.

Any nobody can hang with Cena? Had you noticed nobody raved about his matches until the US title open started and he suddenly started working matches against guys like Owens, Cesaro, Zayne, etc , guys who were already known as great in ring talent? I don't recall anybody going ape shit watching Rusev and Cena go at it. Owens could clearly "hang" with Cena. His current status as with most of the roster has more to do with how the talent is presented that the talent themselves.

Nobody has or had a problem with Owens losing. It was the consecutiv loses and immediate bump back into obscurity that people bitch about. That didn't happen to Austin, regardless of whatever bull shit parallels you're going to try to pull out of your ass, they're not the same.

[Emperor Smeat]

Dirtsheets sponsored by #NewDayBooty:

WWE has added their first-ever DVD and Blu-ray on The Dudley Boyz to the 2016 schedule, according to WrestlingDVDNetwork.com. No word yet if WWE’s first set on Bubba Ray and Devon will be a documentary or a match compilation, or a mix of both, but both of them will be involved now that they are back with WWE. This will be the first WWE Superstar-themed DVD release for 2016. Back in April, WWE mentioned a potential Dudleyz DVD on one of their Fan Council surveys. That blurb read like this: “Dudley Boyz Biography: Arguably the most successful tag team in the history of sports entertainment. Hear from Bubba Ray and D-Von as they discuss theirs trials and tribulations from the bottom to the top and what made they did that helped them become so successful.”

Wednesday's TNA Impact Wrestling television drew 323,000 total viewers (for the first and second airing combined). Viewership was down from the 449,000 viewers the show drew last week.

ROH was also down by around 40,000 viewers for the week.

A lot of fans felt like your Raw promo a few weeks back 'put Triple H over' at the expense of yourself and your feud with Rollins. How do you respond to that? I don't pay attention a lot of times to what's out there, so this is the first time I'm hearing any news of that. I don't think there's anyone who's going to carry all that to Night of Champions and think about that, because the bottom line is, my focus is Seth Rollins. Triple H is Triple H, and he's worth the put-over ... Should you lose at Night of Champions, does it paint a picture that you were brought to WWE primarily to put others over rather than enhance your own legacy? I had my time. There's no question about that. For a guy my age to be where I am right now is, to me, next to impossible. And yet, I'm here. It's not about Sting, not anymore. You're asking a straight-up question, I'll give ya a straight-up answer. That's it, and I am just fine with that.

Part of a recent interview Sting had with Rolling Stones. http://www.rollingstone.com/sports/f...llins-20150916

New season of Total Divas that is currently filming, Naomi is back off the show, which she’s noted publicly, which also means her husband is off as well, and Amanda Saccomanno from Tough enough has been signed and is replacing her in the cast as we had said looked to be the case last week

Besides Amanda, the other runner up from last season ZZ also rumored to have signed a NXT/WWE deal recently.

Then came word on 9/14 that CMLL has banned any of its wrestlers from appearing on any shows that Park or Wagner Jr. are booked on, and has said that the ban is permanent. Right now, a few indie promoters faced with that ultimatum have chosen to use Park and Wagner Jr., who are bigger draws, which has cost CMLL talent work. That’s seemingly a huge blow to All Elite, if they are still around since they have no new shows announced. All Elite had drawn some great houses and some not so great houses this year doing shows that combined legends from the past like Octagon and Fuerza Guerrera, along with Park and Wagner Jr., and the top CMLL stars.

Triple H confirmed today that the December 16th WWE NXT "Takeover: London" event is sold out

"I need to vent, and I hope that the people involved in deciding what's next for Lucha underground read this. I have said many times in my career, that without fan you ain't s--t. Yes, there are big names attached to Lucha Underground. There are a lot of very, very cool people behind the scenes; many of whom I consider friends for life. Some I owe so much to for letting Vampiro live again. And there are some people, talent, who f---ing suck as human beings. Maybe they are important for this business, I don't know, but as human beings, I can't name names, cause it won't do nothing but cause a rift. But I will say it - you suck. And I am sure there are people who are sick of me, and just don't like me, and I get that, and I don't give a f---. But, together, we are LUCHA UNDERGROUND." Vampiro continued, this time speaking directly at the network executives responsible for making the final decisions on Lucha Underground's fate. He noted that "you can't buy fans", and that without the support of the fans all around the world, LUCHA is "just another wrestling show." "We asked for love, we got mad, mad, mad love. Now we are leaving too many people hanging for too long. We are hot. [Lucha Underground] is the s--t. But you f--- around too much, and sooner or later people forget about you." ... "LU has made me feel like living again. Like I have a family, a home. And I miss my brothers and sisters."

Recent rant by Vampiro on his Facebook page regarding the growing frustrations with Lucha Underground's management not being clear to fans and wrestlers about the status of a second season. A lot of wrestlers have either been postponing indie dates because they don't want to be left out of a new season or gave up waiting and don't care if their indie dates clash with the new season.

Talks with the Young Bucks about signing a contract are ongoing and could be fairly close. The deal would have them continue working regularly with New Japan, and also allow them to work PWG. PWG is trying to put together a deal with ROH where they can also get Adam Cole and Kyle O’Reilly back. ROH pulled their exclusive contracted talent from PWG because Cole was injured on a PWG show and they didn’t want to have their key talent risk injury because everyone works so hard on those shows. ROH also wasn’t happy last year when Michael Elgin was their world champion and he lost via pinfall in a singles match on a PWG show. The Bucks have pushed the idea that they can continue to do PWG. If they sign, that would mean there’s pretty much no chance they’re going to WWE until the end of the contract. They were put over big this weekend, winning the main event on 9/11 in Dearborn, MI, over O’Reilly & Bobby Fish, and the main event on 9/12 in Chicago Ridge, IL, beating O’Reilly & Adam Cole, the former Future Shock team"

talking to my tailor about some. . .changes to my wardrobe
#future 🎃 pic.twitter.com/0ARzY0rr7q

— Stardust (@StardustWWE) September 17, 2015

[#1-norm-fan]

Originally Posted by The CyNick Enlighten me on his point He said Owens got screwed by going 1-2 against Cena How did Austin do going 0-2 vs Bret? You know the difference? Austin > Owens. Not Vince is a terrible booker.

It could be a combination of that and the fact that WWE booking was still on-point enough to follow up with a push and keep momentum going instead of following the Bret feud by putting Austin in a boring, lifeless, nothing feud with a directionless midcarder. But since the booking was good back then, that must mean it will always be good til the end of time and all problems are 100% the wrestlers fault.

Originally Posted by The CyNick Typical of today's society, look to blame someone other than the dude in the mirror.

So it's my fault WWE can't build stars anymore and business is down? Shit.

[#1-norm-fan]

Originally Posted by The CyNick Considering I was posting here 10 ago, I guess you guys were 0 back then. Or you like childish programming. Speaks badly of us all I guess.

Also, I don't know what the hell this is supposed to mean. lol

[Damian Rey]

The idea that CyNick used Austin as a losing to Bret as an attempted parallel to Owens and Cena says all anyone should need to know.

[Simple Fan]

Anyone else watch Friends of the People. Its a sketch comedy show on TruTv and have wrestlers on every once in a while. Tatanka and D'Lo Brown were on tonight.

[Lock Jaw]

Please spin off whatever is going on with The CyNick into another thread.

[Fignuts]

Can we get a separate "argue with cynick" thread?

[Damian Rey]

Not sure if anyone follows cageside seats but in their rumor post tonight they stated there's a chance Sting could win the belt Sunday only to drop it back at HITC.

Thoughts?

[Wishbone]

Originally Posted by Damian Rey Not sure if anyone follows cageside seats but in their rumor post tonight they stated there's a chance Sting could win the belt Sunday only to drop it back at HITC. Thoughts?

Meh.

[Droford]

The Rock should name his kid Chip.

[screech]

Really excited at the prospect of Sting winning the title. No idea why as it would be ridiculous.

[Damian Rey]

Nostalgia. When I read that as a possibility that included a short run. But in reality it wouldn't be beneficial to anyone other than Sting.

[Droford]

Sting in WWE now just pisses me off at the thought of what he could have done in WWE if he hadn't hung around with TNA or even went there in the first place.

[Droford]

Could have had Sting vs HBK

Fuck you Steve Borden

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Fignuts HD Edition Can we get a separate "argue with cynick" thread?

Would be the biggest thread in the history of this site

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Damian Rey Not sure if anyone follows cageside seats but in their rumor post tonight they stated there's a chance Sting could win the belt Sunday only to drop it back at HITC. Thoughts?

Not a fan.

There is more value in keeping Rollins as champ. He should either lose it via MITB (taste of his own medicine) or to a conquering babyface (Lesnar, Cena, Reigns).

[screech]

Originally Posted by Damian Rey Nostalgia. When I read that as a possibility that included a short run. But in reality it wouldn't be beneficial to anyone other than Sting.

Probably, but I wasn't a big WCW guy. It world benefit no one but Sting and me. I would love to see him win, even though Rollins should totally retain.

[Emperor Smeat]

Originally Posted by Damian Rey Not sure if anyone follows cageside seats but in their rumor post tonight they stated there's a chance Sting could win the belt Sunday only to drop it back at HITC. Thoughts?

Find it a bit odd mostly because of the idea of giving the WWE's biggest prize to a WCW guy this soon and after all the jabs the WWE has done for years to WCW's legacy.

If Sting is winning the belt, it has to be the main event of NoC. Wouldn't make sense for the US belt to main event like rumors have been teasing for a while if that was the case.

[Simple Fan]

Sting winning is the right choice. Rollins is great but has kind of run his course as champ. Seems to me they are just wasting time getting to the Rollins / HHH feud. Have Sting, and Cena win and that would piss off HHH and not allow him to have rematches. Sting would then face Sheamus at HIAC. Don't know about Sheamus as champ though, think I'd rather have Sting have a longer reign. V

[Rammsteinmad]

Rollins has been awesome as champion. His run has been totally fresh, his matches are amazing, and he sounds more confident on the mic than he ever has. I'm happy for him to retain the title all the way to Wrestlemania, and then lose it in a Shield Triple Threat match. I don't even care who he loses it to.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Seth Rollins is the man. He should definitely win both matches at Night of Champions.

Also, Dana Brooke would get it. Just saying.

[Anybody Thrilla]

And that Devon chick that does backstage interviews in NXT...fucking sucks. What is she doing?

[Evil Vito]

WhatCulture had a brilliant YouTube series called "10 Things WWE Went You to Forget About *insert wrestler name here*" where they'd pick out a wrestler and just talk about stuff that WWE swept under the rug. Once in a while there would be something serious (ie: Austin's included his domestic violence charges) but for the most part it was light-hearted and non-malicious.

WWE finally went ahead and filed a copyright claim against them, so all the videos had to be removed. Whaddya know, I guess WWE really didn't want you to remember those things.

[#1-norm-fan]

Think I'd rather see Sting as champion for a month than Rollins keep it. Since TNA doesn't exist in the "WWE universe", he's at least got some credibility as a huge star who would bring the prestige of the title up for a bit by holding it.

Honestly, I think I'd rather see Brock holding it while making his rare appearances still than have it on Seth Rollins as he jobs left and right and makes it look like a glorified title for losers. It should always be on someone ridiculously over until they're able to get someone else to that level. This "throw your world championship on a guy and hope to maybe get them over to that level later" thing is just bad for business all around and makes the title itself not draw for shit.

[Innovator]

Rollins should wipe the mat with Sting

[Wishbone]

Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan Think I'd rather see Sting as champion for a month than Rollins keep it. Since TNA doesn't exist in the "WWE universe", he's at least got some credibility as a huge star who would bring the prestige of the title up for a bit by holding it. Honestly, I think I'd rather see Brock holding it while making his rare appearances still than have it on Seth Rollins as he jobs left and right and makes it look like a glorified title for losers. It should always be on someone ridiculously over until they're able to get someone else to that level. This "throw your world championship on a guy and hope to maybe get them over to that level later" thing is just bad for business all around and makes the title itself not draw for shit.

I'd agree with you if not for the fact that WWE has pretty much proven they're incapable of ever getting someone even remotely close to that level without throwing the title on them. It's not right, but honestly the title really is just a prop these days. It should be the prize for guys that got to the level of mega star, but it's not, and throwing it on Sting or any other legend really isn't going to change that unfortunately. To build the title back up to being meaningful would probably take years at this point.