09-11-2019, 01:50 AM | #2081 |
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Or Serena Williams, for that matter.
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09-11-2019, 02:01 AM | #2082 |
Hey Mister!
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09-11-2019, 02:07 AM | #2083 |
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She hasn’t really had a chance, to be fair. I don’t like how she’s been booked. Too many multi-person matches.
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09-11-2019, 02:40 AM | #2084 | |
Resident drug enabler
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09-11-2019, 03:22 AM | #2085 |
3 Dicks Out For Trips
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lol at the assertion we weren't talking about gender Noid. When we are talking about transGENDER people. Theres just so much to break down in that post up there, I don't even know where to start, really.
M2F transgender athletes are increasingly being crowned champions in multiple women's sports, including but not limited to: Weight lifting, track and field and cycling. Men who identify as female but are still biologically male are even being allowed to enter into women's competition at this point and are winning. Some of these athletes will be competing in the Olympics next year. But since men supposedly aren't physically superior on a base level we should see the same trend in the opposite direction, with F2M trans athletes doing well in mens sports. Shocker though, they aren't. You keep going on about testosterone not being a big deal, but now with the caveat of it being in normal levels. News flash, biological males have a much higher normal amount of it than females do. It's one of the reasons why men have a physical advantage. And when a male transitions to female and that level of testosterone is brought down to normal levels for a female it does not remove the YEARS of physical benefits the higher level of T brought to them as a male. It is absolutely outrageous to claim what you are about testosterone, there is a very distinct reason it is so highly monitored in athletics. Because it is a power level and it's over 9000 whether you like it or not. How someone feels, or identifies, or aligns at any given point in their life is a part of their gender, but it is not the only part. The physical biology matters. Someone can be born feeling female from day one but be biologically male and reap all the benefits from that. Identity may be an extremely complicated topic, but biology is not nearly so. To suggest Nyla Rose may have been a woman since birth is ridiculous. She wasn't. She was physically born a male. Facts don't care about your feelings or hers or anyone elses. You come off as someone whos heart is absolutely in the right place but it's making you commit to some really strange arguments. Last edited by Sepholio; 09-11-2019 at 03:24 AM. Reason: added the word supposedly |
09-11-2019, 03:26 AM | #2086 |
3 Dicks Out For Trips
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I wish there was a way to tell how many people streamed AEW by less than savory means. Still think it would be way more telling at this point. They are seriously pricing themselves out of a lot of people who would buy into it.
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09-11-2019, 07:37 AM | #2087 | ||
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It’s just dicey to say that trans women used to be “scientifically” male. It’s way too much of a box and just a set of assumptions that science doesn’t make anymore just because someone had a Hogan instead of a Terry down there. Quote:
If we are talking gender, then it’s a false point to bring up her assigned sex anyway. If you’re talking about gender, drop the sex stuff, if you’re talking about sex, then her gender has got nothing to do with it. Are they? It seems like every time a trans woman wins anything it’s major news. The list of famous trans athletes is relatively small. Are they cropping up at a consistent rate as other trans people, or is this a “vaccinations cause autism” type point. Maybe our diagnoses are getting better? Trans women would hold a lot more records if they had a blanket advantage. A lot reduce their testosterone and take other hormonal supplements. Is being bigger and stronger going to help? Of course. No one is saying that, you’ve flown off the handle making up things. I’m saying that many trans women work hard to alter elements of their biology, which *can* negate certain advantages at certain times in certain sports. Why do you think the Olympics are letting trans athletes compete? Think about it. Do you have any evidence to suggest that trans women are being crowned champions in sport at a disproportionate rate to their success in business, music or even just their rate of transition? By that I mean is there an even split between trans men and trans women? If there were, say, more trans women than trans men, wouldn’t you expect there to be an outstanding number of trans women athletes comparatively? Also, there are trans men who achieve in the sporting field. I think your alarm is dramatic. Lol, I brought up testosterone once and said that it “isn’t what people think it is.” You read into that because, like it or not, your argument is emotive. Are you really saying you are more qualified to comment on this more than the actual experts that, at worst (for my point), split on this? Until you have evidence to suggest that definitively that what you are saying is true, I’m going to call bullshit. And...that’s not even the fucking point! I wasn’t talking about men in shoot sports allegedly taking all the cool spots, I’m talking about a woman worker, who, yes, should be making it look real, but is in a worked position. I’m fine with trans women in sports, but I’m fine if they addressed the “hysteria” too. Given how easily guys get their panties in a twist about it though, it’s obviously why they shouldn’t. |
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09-11-2019, 09:17 AM | #2088 |
boop/bop/beep
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lol
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09-11-2019, 10:49 AM | #2089 | |
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The price could be damaging, but I actually would pay $50 for wrestling if I knew I was going to love it. I just can’t philosophically go in on All Elite and some of their goofy WWE-style stuff. |
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09-11-2019, 11:13 AM | #2090 |
It's a blood match!
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Streamers gonna stream. I used to do it. I don't have to now so I don't.
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09-11-2019, 04:08 PM | #2091 | |
Former TPWW Royalty
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The percentage that watch illegal streams of WWE events is likely a lot lower mainly due to WWE working with a lot higher numbers on average for shows and the Network spiking those numbers. |
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09-11-2019, 06:07 PM | #2092 | |
Resident drug enabler
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She was born with a Y chromosome and her body developed as a male. Even though you downplayed it, you admitted that there are generally differences between men and women physically. You acknowledge gender labels and then back off when it gets uncomfortable. I get you’re trying to be ultra safe and not offend with “labels” but when it prevents you from having an honest discussion, back up and find a middle ground. |
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09-11-2019, 06:58 PM | #2093 | |
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Her brain or body may have always had “female” qualities. We just don’t know that much about her. Did her body develop as a male? Did her mind? She may have developed in some ways as a woman which has encouraged her “transition.” My point isn’t so much about labels as the complexities of identities — mental and physical — and how that shapes us. Nyla might very well be like “Yeah, I used to be a dude.” And that is fine. It may or may not be true. When dealing with trans people and trans issues, it’s just way too hard to go back and talk about concrete black and white, especially since we’re learning more about how biological sex is much murkier than the binary we’ve always thought of it as. Nothing about what you said struck me as offensive or anything. It’s just that word “scientifically.” It’s seriously just that word, because I think it makes too many assumptions about who Nyla used to be and how her shit worked. She was identified as male, maybe even identified herself as male, but I think it’s too rigid to say she was scientifically male. And frankly irrelevant (not that you were playing up it’s relevance as anything more than curiosity). She may have been a male, sex-wise or gender-wise, but it might be murkier than that. That’s all I’m saying. |
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09-12-2019, 03:57 AM | #2094 |
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She was born a man. That is scientifically factual. Her body didn't have "female qualities". She was born a man. She grew up with the bone density and testosterone levels of a man. She's a woman now. But that does not reverse the 18-20 yrs she spent in life as a man, with a man's body and a man's genetic makeup.
Last edited by Damian Rey 2.0; 09-12-2019 at 01:20 PM. |
09-12-2019, 09:14 AM | #2095 |
3 Dicks Out For Trips
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09-12-2019, 09:57 AM | #2096 |
boop/bop/beep
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Scientifically, Noid is a fucknut
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09-12-2019, 01:21 PM | #2097 |
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Easily one of the weirdest arguments I've ever seen.
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09-14-2019, 02:34 AM | #2098 | |
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09-14-2019, 03:32 AM | #2099 |
Let me talk to ya
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He just did. You can't be that much in denial. She was "scientifically" born a man. You are hung on the mental aspect of her transition which itself isn't scientifically proven.
Like everyone else I'm not sure how her transition went but I'm not against her being the AEW Women's World Championship eventually, I don't think they should lead with her though. |
09-14-2019, 08:21 AM | #2100 | |
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We know gender is constructed, right? But we’re also learning that a lot of biological stuff is more fluid than we thought too. I don’t think it’s scientifically correct to say that biological sex is a binary anymore. Some trans people do align their bodies to match their identified gender. This could very well be the case with Nyla. I just don’t think it’s fair to say that’s concrete since, like you just said, you don’t know. It’s too reductive to say that happens 100% of the time in 100% of cases. If the wording was like something like “their first Women’s Champion was someone that was assigned male status” I’d be like “yeah, that’s true.” From what I know, she was. She’s probably lived male experiences. I don’t know that. I wasn’t there. I know she’s Native American, and some tribes have had “two-spirit” people. I’m not sure how she grew up and how her environmental development was. But we don’t have a complete phenotype, and even if she were phenotypically male and that were scientifically true, I don’t think it’s the right wording to say she was “scientifically” a male. That’s just too...unspecific and broad, even if I knew what #fan meant and it wasn’t offensive. Like, a painting of a tree is scientifically “a tree.” Look at it, it’s a tree. It’s not the same thing as it being a conifer. Or it having actual roots in the ground. Or it also being made of paint. Or it being comprised of shapes. Or is it even a tree? Maybe it’s a painting of a photo of a tree? Maybe the artist did paint a tree and it’s supposed to be a tree and the artwork is called “Tree.” Whatever. That’s cool. But to see that painting, have no more information and to say “scientifically that is a tree.” Is it? It depends. It may be in how it is perceived and described by people, but it’s not botanically. In this scenario, I’m not accusing #fan of trying to tell me that it’s a botanical tree. He’s just telling me that scientifically it’s a tree. And it might be. It probably is. I’m just saying that there is probably a better word than “scientifically.” If #1-wwf-fan said that Nyla Rose was probably phenotypically male, I’d totally agree with that, with the caveat that I am still assuming and whatever. It’s just that concrete, blanket “scientifically.” #fan probably didn’t think twice about it, and I know the point he was making wasn’t shitty, so I actually didn’t want that to be the purpose of my post, it was just an added aside in a fun-spirited way — “I agree with everything but...” If I were peer-reviewing #fan’s work, I’d probably catch the wording and note it “awk.” But these are wrestling boards, so whatever. I’m actually pretty sure #fan wouldn’t use that word writing a hypothetical paper because it wasn’t part of his point. |
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09-14-2019, 08:34 AM | #2101 |
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What would everyone’s thoughts on Cryme Tyme being Jericho’s partners? Or Shad Gaspard & Muhammad Hassan? They’ve just released a comic book together. Shad & JTG did a video claiming they “stole” the AEW World Title. I assume they want in.
They never thrilled me in the ring and they were presented as too much of an OTT gimmick, but there’s no doubt that they were super-charismatic guys, with some size to them too. |
09-14-2019, 09:01 AM | #2102 |
boop/bop/beep
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#science
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09-14-2019, 11:32 AM | #2103 | |
President of Freedonia
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That said, I don't know if AEW is going to add even more teams just yet. Jericho's partners are almost assuredly going to be LAX. |
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09-14-2019, 01:29 PM | #2104 |
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09-14-2019, 01:32 PM | #2105 |
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Lmao "assigned" gender as if the doctor is sitting there trying to decide what declare. Nyla was born wth a penis. She's built like a man. She wasn't assigned her gender by a doctor. She was biologically born a male, with male genitalia. Whether or not she ever felt like a man, or identified as one, is irrelevant. Regardless of how she felt, she was born a man. She wasn't assigned to that gender group as if she was being picked for a team to play dodgeball on.
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09-14-2019, 03:51 PM | #2106 |
Feeling Oof-y
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“Assigned Male Status” is one of the weirdest phrases I have ever heard. That said, I’ve not taken the time that Noid has to research/understand the innumerable complexities of the transgender individual.
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09-14-2019, 04:05 PM | #2107 | |
boop/bop/beep
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This hot take was brought to you by #Science. |
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09-14-2019, 04:39 PM | #2108 | |
Let me talk to ya
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Noids thought process is amazing, how in the hell he went from trans people to trees I'll never know. At least now we all know that if a painting of a tree is actually a painting of a photo of a tree than it's not scientifically a tree.
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09-14-2019, 05:20 PM | #2109 |
Grim Fandango
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From a purely scientific standpoint, if Noid were to transition into a potato, his post quality would dramatically increase.
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09-14-2019, 09:02 PM | #2110 | |||
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https://www.plannedparenthood.org/le...ender-identity https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_assignment Quote:
I don’t know when she started transitioning. I don’t know when she realized “I am a woman.” I don’t know if she ever felt comfortable being called a male, or if it was always something her brain — real fucking scientific synapses — always rejected. I don’t need to. I’m not the one saying she scientifically used to be male. The onus is on the hypothesis to be provable. When in the second grade, XL had an awkward experience with a girl. I don’t know this. I’m guessing based on what I know about growing up. It’s probable that you did at some point that year. I’ve been very unspecific as to what they experience is. It’s not scientific though. And if you came back and said “Actually, nah, it was a great year and nothing like that happened,” should I be completely shocked? And should I be so goddamn mad that you’re not making it so fucking simple for me. You wrote a book called “My Awkward Young Years” for crying out loud. I dunno, it seems simple to me. Biological sex is sometimes, not always, more complicated than a binary. Gender is constructed, but sex is determined. That is determined by genealogical and environmental factors. Those factors are fact, but they don’t mean any assumption built off them is fact. If Nyla weighted 230lbs, that is a fact. Nyla weights 230lbs because she likes cheese sandwiches is an assumption until you know she’s 230lbs because she eats cheese sandwiches. Fan, you are literally a nationalist piece of shit that doesn’t understand why someone would care about what happens to someone else in another part of the world. And you’re an Eli Drake fan. You have no input as to anything ever. You’ve struggled with what analogies are before too. |
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09-14-2019, 09:04 PM | #2111 | |
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09-14-2019, 09:17 PM | #2112 |
Inno Knows.
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We need more wars
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09-14-2019, 10:02 PM | #2113 |
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Here’s an easy to read article that puts things succinctly, for those of you who like to read: https://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943
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09-14-2019, 10:05 PM | #2114 |
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Yes Noid. She's an intersex. Just like about .05-.07% of the population.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inte...lation_figures Perhaps you'd like to read, as well. |
09-14-2019, 10:55 PM | #2115 | |
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And I’ve never said that #1-wwf-fan was probably wrong. I’m saying that to say she was categorically, definitively, concretely, authoritatively male is a declarative statement that I wouldn’t make. It is *probably* true. But #fan didn’t say “probably.” He said “scientifically.” It’s just that fucking word. #fan wasn’t doing this, but people use it to justify their bullshit all the time. “Oh, there are only two genders. It’s scientific.” No one here is doing that specific shitty thing (thank fuck), but it fucking pisses me off. They start with their hypothesis as a conclusion and then just say “science” as their methodology. Nah, fuck you. If biological sex were as simple as “penis = male” scientists wouldn’t have to study for eight fucking years or whatever to get the qualifications to ask more questions about these things. I’ll let my friends in the medical field know that Damien Rey 2.0 has made their jobs redundant because intersex people are rare and if you’re transgender it means that you used to definitively be the other thing. Thanks for fixing that. And the thing is, we don’t even know that Nyla was born with a penis. We don’t know the details of her identity or her formative journey. Maybe there’s a doco on her I missed? Even so, there are definite arguments to be made that how she exists now is proof in itself that she was never *scientifically* a he. Trans women are women, and I’d say that doesn’t start at the date of surgery. It goes way back through time, memory, experience and development. |
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09-16-2019, 02:31 PM | #2116 |
Trickster Demon
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09-16-2019, 07:42 PM | #2117 |
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Bold market!
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09-16-2019, 07:55 PM | #2118 |
Let me talk to ya
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Indy and Nashville, if they make a stop in the middle in Louisville I'll go.
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09-16-2019, 08:34 PM | #2119 | |
King of Love and Piss
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I'm going I'm going I'm Going I'm going. |
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09-16-2019, 08:35 PM | #2120 |
King of Love and Piss
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Is that the first TNT show?
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