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Old 02-09-2021, 10:00 PM   #2641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
5 most watched Super Bowls ever all happened within the past 10 years despite TV ratings being down across the board. SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT.
Yep. AEW has no excuse for getting under 1 million viewers. Plenty of shows for that every week. They’re just bad.
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Old 02-11-2021, 04:26 PM   #2642
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Cable News had quite the night.

FOX News not a single show in the top 25.
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Old 02-11-2021, 05:33 PM   #2643
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The Dusty Classic is not a draw, it hasn't been interesting since the 2nd year they did it.
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Old 02-11-2021, 06:23 PM   #2644
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I will never understand this intense hatred for AEW. They ended a 20 year WWE monopoly which was responsible some some of the dullest, most complacent, most mailed-in content ever created in wrestling. The passion that some of you have against it is baffling, especially since there's a comparatively small sample size in relation to WWE. It's a promotion that welcomes smarks/internet fans and caters specifically to us like 90% of the time, the person that owns it is a massive wrestling fan, the promotion has pretty consistent great matches from show to show, there's a good mixture between established/upcoming/international talent. I am genuinely confused with the reaction.

This is literally what we've been asking for since WCW went under.
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Old 02-11-2021, 06:27 PM   #2645
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And I know everyone has different tastes and such. I understand someone being like "eh, I don't know. I'm kind of used to the WWE product so I prefer that." What I don't understand is the intense passionate hatred. That's some weirdo shit.
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Old 02-11-2021, 08:50 PM   #2646
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Married at First Sight was pretty good. Surprised that AEW beat them this week! Chris told Paige that his ex fiance was pregt 3 days into their marriage on their honeymoon in Vegas and Eric the airplane pilot got wasted with his much younger new wife who has been causing him to drink much more than he is normally used to because she is a party girl and Eric pissed off Chris talking about his ex fiance and Chris started to cry. Also Vincent and Brianna made love for the first time after Vincent found out his grandma was in the hospital and then they played footsies barefoot in the sand while they had dinner on a false beach in Vegas. Also Jacob was still really boring to his new wife Haley and told her his dream car was a Delorean and she has no idea what that was, and she claims to be a "car girl".
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Old 02-12-2021, 01:49 PM   #2647
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Darn. Starting to feel bad for WWE. Fuck.
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Old 02-12-2021, 02:16 PM   #2648
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You'd think moving NXT to Tuesday or Thursday would be ideal. Maybe even Saturday would do better. I can't imagine USA canning the show altogether, but I guess that is possible. I think that WWE out NXT on USA at a bad time. They had pretty much taken all of the talent that people were excited for and promoted them to Raw/Smackdown. While that is the ultimate point, it was just a bad roster to go head to head with AEW, which is consistently the top non news program on Wednesday nights.
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Old 02-12-2021, 07:27 PM   #2649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narkseid View Post
I will never understand this intense hatred for AEW. They ended a 20 year WWE monopoly which was responsible some some of the dullest, most complacent, most mailed-in content ever created in wrestling. The passion that some of you have against it is baffling, especially since there's a comparatively small sample size in relation to WWE. It's a promotion that welcomes smarks/internet fans and caters specifically to us like 90% of the time, the person that owns it is a massive wrestling fan, the promotion has pretty consistent great matches from show to show, there's a good mixture between established/upcoming/international talent. I am genuinely confused with the reaction.

This is literally what we've been asking for since WCW went under.
No, this is not what I asked for. I wanted a proper attempt at a serious sized pro-wrestling promotion to provide a legitimate alternative to the WWE. Not even sillier, more insulting, less meaningful, self-indulgent shit. Is it my understanding they did another kidnapping that was just dropped without any explanation?

This is PWG-style horseshit with a dash of Vince Russo’s WCW. Don’t tell me I want this. It hasn’t even provided an alternative. WWE have gone from offering their talent $500k-$750k to stay benched to offering $400k to focused talent. Every major star is re-signing with WWE. They’re ZERO threat and I’m mad about them reinforcing the monopoly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan X View Post
You'd think moving NXT to Tuesday or Thursday would be ideal. Maybe even Saturday would do better. I can't imagine USA canning the show altogether, but I guess that is possible. I think that WWE out NXT on USA at a bad time. They had pretty much taken all of the talent that people were excited for and promoted them to Raw/Smackdown. While that is the ultimate point, it was just a bad roster to go head to head with AEW, which is consistently the top non news program on Wednesday nights.
The thing about NXT is we don’t know how much it does or doesn’t cost USA versus how much it brings in for them. We know AEW costs $45 million in rights PLUS half its ad revenue. AEW would need to be raking in twice as much as NXT assuming NXT costs the same in rights fees for them to BREAK EVEN. There are rumors that USA isn’t even paying that much. NXT is also an international brand with lots of different representation on it. We don’t actually know which audience is more valuable to advertisers.

All these networks care about is how much these shows make them. It’s very possible that NXT is more valuable than Dynamite. Is it going to be more valuable than the NHL when that all happens? Probably not. That will be interesting. But the idea that NXT needs to move to get its ratings up is a construct of wrestling fans.
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Old 02-12-2021, 09:32 PM   #2650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
No, this is not what I asked for. I wanted a proper attempt at a serious sized pro-wrestling promotion to provide a legitimate alternative to the WWE. Not even sillier, more insulting, less meaningful, self-indulgent shit. Is it my understanding they did another kidnapping that was just dropped without any explanation?

This is PWG-style horseshit with a dash of Vince Russo’s WCW. Don’t tell me I want this. It hasn’t even provided an alternative. WWE have gone from offering their talent $500k-$750k to stay benched to offering $400k to focused talent. Every major star is re-signing with WWE. They’re ZERO threat and I’m mad about them reinforcing the monopoly.



The thing about NXT is we don’t know how much it does or doesn’t cost USA versus how much it brings in for them. We know AEW costs $45 million in rights PLUS half its ad revenue. AEW would need to be raking in twice as much as NXT assuming NXT costs the same in rights fees for them to BREAK EVEN. There are rumors that USA isn’t even paying that much. NXT is also an international brand with lots of different representation on it. We don’t actually know which audience is more valuable to advertisers.

All these networks care about is how much these shows make them. It’s very possible that NXT is more valuable than Dynamite. Is it going to be more valuable than the NHL when that all happens? Probably not. That will be interesting. But the idea that NXT needs to move to get its ratings up is a construct of wrestling fans.
AEW's payroll is also multiple times larger than NXT's. Everyone and their favorite 70 year old announcer has "the biggest and best contract of their whole careers".

I don't know how much money they are losing, but it's a lot, like high 8 figures a year id guess.
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Old 02-12-2021, 09:38 PM   #2651
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I watch both NXT and AEW on-demand so changing days wouldn't really affect me, but I'd think a rasslin show on every night could be good overall.

Dunno. Feel like with DVR - and NXT being available on the network in a day or two - channel-flipping seems counterproductive.
Last edited by screech; 02-12-2021 at 09:38 PM. Reason: Have I posted this thought already? Fuck it.
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Old 02-13-2021, 12:20 AM   #2652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 View Post
AEW's payroll is also multiple times larger than NXT's. Everyone and their favorite 70 year old announcer has "the biggest and best contract of their whole careers".

I don't know how much money they are losing, but it's a lot, like high 8 figures a year id guess.
I think Jericho is on $3 million a year, Mox is on $2 million and JR is on $1 million. Throw in $1 million for Matt Hardy. I’m sure the EVPs are all getting that much AT LEAST. Probably Brandi too. $1.6 million for FTR all up. $2 million for Sting? You’re looking at $15.6 million for just the seven figure club. I’ve probably left out some people.
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Old 02-13-2021, 09:27 AM   #2653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
I think Jericho is on $3 million a year, Mox is on $2 million and JR is on $1 million. Throw in $1 million for Matt Hardy. I’m sure the EVPs are all getting that much AT LEAST. Probably Brandi too. $1.6 million for FTR all up. $2 million for Sting? You’re looking at $15.6 million for just the seven figure club. I’ve probably left out some people.
I'm pretty sure that Meltzer said in early 2020 the new TNT deal made them profitable. I'd assume not incurring the cost of touring and renting has made not having an audience come out as as. It a huge financial blow anyway.
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Old 02-13-2021, 09:31 AM   #2654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by screech View Post
I watch both NXT and AEW on-demand so changing days wouldn't really affect me, but I'd think a rasslin show on every night could be good overall.

Dunno. Feel like with DVR - and NXT being available on the network in a day or two - channel-flipping seems counterproductive.
If you are watching on demand then you really don't count. I often watch on demand as well, I'm not making this a personal attack. But the ratings only reflect those with Nelson boxes/coverage who watch live. I don't even know how people are lured into registering with Nelson, I've never been asked to when subscribing to a proper cable service. On Sling there is an opt on option but you have to seek it out yourself. The whole Nelson concept really confuses me because I don't think it's a great representation of the actual number, more like a trending suggestion.
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Old 02-13-2021, 09:43 AM   #2655
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Yeah, Nielsen ratings can only suggest potential trends. Networks get the demographics of all of the Nielsen customers so they can slice and dice the numbers as they see fit but the actual number of viewers is always just going to be a projection.

But AEW and NXT both being under a million confirmed viewers sounds funnier to a lot of people in this thread so hey.
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Old 02-13-2021, 11:18 AM   #2656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan X View Post
If you are watching on demand then you really don't count. I often watch on demand as well, I'm not making this a personal attack. But the ratings only reflect those with Nelson boxes/coverage who watch live. I don't even know how people are lured into registering with Nelson, I've never been asked to when subscribing to a proper cable service. On Sling there is an opt on option but you have to seek it out yourself. The whole Nelson concept really confuses me because I don't think it's a great representation of the actual number, more like a trending suggestion.
I'm not a Nielsen box guy so I wouldn't really count even if I did watch live. But I get it: those numbers aren't...I guess reliable is the best word.

But like Vito said, parts of this thread kinda prove that it doesn't even matter to some people lol
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Old 02-13-2021, 12:02 PM   #2657
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1.884 million for brand blue this week. Look at those 50+ ratings for CBS. Old people love them some CBS.
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Old 02-13-2021, 12:23 PM   #2658
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I'm pretty sure that Meltzer said in early 2020 the new TNT deal made them profitable. I'd assume not incurring the cost of touring and renting has made not having an audience come out as as. It a huge financial blow anyway.
Meltzer schills for AEW, has since day 1. It means nothing he says without any actual details should be taken at face value. Him saying AEW is profitable is almost a dead giveaway that they are not.
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Old 02-13-2021, 03:35 PM   #2659
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I don't hate AEW. Been to multiple shows. I just don't understand why people are swooning over it. It's more of the same muck WWE has been putting out for years with a "ranking system" layered on the top to make them look serious I guess. The stories are the same mindless drivel the E puts out but we have people spazzing about how awesome it is every time AEW does something WWE has already done countless times; yet if WWE does something AEW did everyone gives them shit. It's just weird to me.

If you erased the AEW brand from peoples mind and ran the exact same Dynamite shows no one would be able to tell it wasn't WWE the whole time. I want an alternative that works to fix the issues WWE has had for years now and presents themselves as an actual alternative; I don't want more of the same with a bunch of less recognizable rasslers propped up by a large group of ex-WWE guys at the top of the card.
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Old 02-13-2021, 04:40 PM   #2660
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Originally Posted by Seph View Post
I don't hate AEW. Been to multiple shows. I just don't understand why people are swooning over it. It's more of the same muck WWE has been putting out for years with a "ranking system" layered on the top to make them look serious I guess. The stories are the same mindless drivel the E puts out but we have people spazzing about how awesome it is every time AEW does something WWE has already done countless times; yet if WWE does something AEW did everyone gives them shit. It's just weird to me.

If you erased the AEW brand from peoples mind and ran the exact same Dynamite shows no one would be able to tell it wasn't WWE the whole time. I want an alternative that works to fix the issues WWE has had for years now and presents themselves as an actual alternative; I don't want more of the same with a bunch of less recognizable rasslers propped up by a large group of ex-WWE guys at the top of the card.
100% Agree
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Old 02-13-2021, 07:12 PM   #2661
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Originally Posted by Jordan X View Post
I'm pretty sure that Meltzer said in early 2020 the new TNT deal made them profitable. I'd assume not incurring the cost of touring and renting has made not having an audience come out as as. It a huge financial blow anyway.
You really can’t trust Meltzer when it comes to AEW. I used to really like the guy, but:

-He conflates AEW’s international PPV data with their domestic buys and uses that number to compare against terrestrial domestic PPV to pimp AEW. He’ll tell you stuff like “AEW is doing better on PPV than anyone since WCW.” Which ignores that there hasn’t been anything big since WCW and that ECW actually got higher US PPV buys than AEW did.

-His maths when trying to justify the low bar for AEW’s TV ratings was ridiculous. He blatantly suggested that TNT will subtract B/R Live subscribers from the usual average in the slot. Come on.

-Spreading shit about Randy Orton when he didn’t sign with AEW. Meltzer made it sound like Orton priced himself out of negotiations. Tony Khan himself went on Twitter and made a jab at Orton for using AEW’s offers to better his position with Vince. To do that you need an offer. TK admitted it, Meltzer tried to hide they didn’t nab him.

-His coverage of AEW fucking over New Japan was all wonky.

-When it comes to the WWE, viewership is important. When it comes to AEW, it’s demo.

-Never spoils AEW even though he has a direct line in.

-Never criticises them for their “sloppy” practices, whereas the WWE is open game.

-The news or something else is always to blame when AEW fails to build momentum in the ratings. That’s always been bullshit, but now people like Brandon Thurston are finally starting to call it.

I used to like the guy, but his AEW coverage has REALLY soured me on him. He’s obviously getting talked to less and less by WWE guys too. Oh well. He’s made his bed and can lie in it.

AEW being profitable coming from Meltzer just means that The Bucks have told him that, or that he wants people to think that.
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Old 02-13-2021, 07:23 PM   #2662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph View Post
I don't hate AEW. Been to multiple shows. I just don't understand why people are swooning over it. It's more of the same muck WWE has been putting out for years with a "ranking system" layered on the top to make them look serious I guess. The stories are the same mindless drivel the E puts out but we have people spazzing about how awesome it is every time AEW does something WWE has already done countless times; yet if WWE does something AEW did everyone gives them shit. It's just weird to me.

If you erased the AEW brand from peoples mind and ran the exact same Dynamite shows no one would be able to tell it wasn't WWE the whole time. I want an alternative that works to fix the issues WWE has had for years now and presents themselves as an actual alternative; I don't want more of the same with a bunch of less recognizable rasslers propped up by a large group of ex-WWE guys at the top of the card.
Excellent post. The only thing I can compare this weird swooning to is when I criticized Alexa Bliss in 2016 and the usual suspects getting themselves in a twist because I couldn’t bring myself to call her a great women’s wrestler.

It’s as insulting, inconsistent and childish as WWE. You’ve had two people go into cakes in as many weeks. Chris Jericho has been slimed. Kidnappings go nowhere. Stories are rushed. It randomly turns into a musical. They think swearing is edgy. They are riddled with nepotism. They have way too many comedy acts. Psychology is not encouraged. Every match is just spot, spot, spot.

They don’t know how to book former champions. When guys or girls lose belts they just disappear. They don’t know how to build anything. What has actually been built well in AEW’s history? Don’t give me MJF turning on Cody. That was rushed. Remember when he was supposed to be their next top heel. Whoosh. Been and gone with the Mox loss. Remember how Adam Page was supposed to be their big babyface? He’s never been higher than the second PPV and now he’s a funny drunk cowboy with Matt Hardy.

They do the exact same shit as WWE and get praised for it while the WWE gets trashed because it’s WWE. And I personally want cunts like BigCrippyZ who would say shit like “Nothing matters in WWE! Things matter in AEW!” to fucking admit through their gritted teeth that NOTHING matters in AEW. Not who the champ is, not who they sign, not who The Bucks flip around with this week, not who Cody goes 15 minutes with — not ANY of it.

Like it if you want, but don’t try and tell me this is good. Or what I’ve been after. This is PWG if it had the budget to afford Vince Russo and the old guys that Vince didn’t want to pay to sit on the sides anymore.
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Old 02-13-2021, 07:32 PM   #2663
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Yea all the comedy shit really annoys me. It's one of the reasons WWE soured on me in the first place. When you play PG it's inevitable that comedy becomes the game and a couple swear words here and there isn't gonna change that. I was hoping they would be a more edgy promotion, more like attitude era WWE with a bit of a lean to ECW. Instead it's just another show to watch because I still like wrestling for some reason.
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Old 02-13-2021, 07:42 PM   #2664
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I mean it's fair to say I enjoy AEW. But I enjoy it the same way I enjoy WWE. AEW never elicits any reaction from me that WWE doesn't; there is no added hype wondering what they are going to do next or who is going to show up randomly. It's just there and more rassling is always ok with me.

I was way more hyped for them when they first started and I went to some shows. But at that point it was really just matches because they had no time to build any storylines. I was just seeing fresh matchups between some established guys I knew from other promotions and some new faces, some of whom can put on a really good show. I liked that and I liked the promise of where it could go. But then the stories developed and just like WWE the majority of them were meaningless tripe or comedy and they weren't that good. The upper card leaned too hard on guys like Mox and Jericho, etc. Cody removing himself from the title picture to assuage people who worried he would push himself is stupid; he should be at the top of the card because he deserved to be there. Taking forever to build up Omega to the main event when he should have been there from day 1 was also ridiculous and they didn't do a good job building him. They basically relegated him to tag team and mid card work and then 2 years later BOOM WORLD EATER. Simply put they turned into a WWE clone. It is what it is. Sure they are an alternative but they aren't the product I hoped they would be and they aren't going to get people hyped about wrestling again by just copying the competition. They will never seriously challenge WWE if this is what they are content with doing.
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Old 02-13-2021, 10:37 PM   #2665
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re: challenging WWE - if people still tune in/engage with the show (how exactly they measure that on social media and stuff I don't know), they don't really have to change much. Plus I think they just extended their TV deal, didn't they?

And staying in this "different but similar" category maybe good enough for the brass. Shit, I'm still enjoying the product enough.

But it is a bit of a bummer that they hyped up being an alternative only to put on a similar show with different characters.
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Old 02-13-2021, 11:33 PM   #2666
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The chance to challenge had already passed, I think. It was all potential. No one knew what to expect from Dynamite out the gate. But when it became apparent they had no clue what they were doing (and I still maintain it was that wonky bait and switch with Page and PAC at DON that made no sense), all the top stars chose WWE and were never really going to consider running against Vince. They could have had real chances to create a real WCW feel (in a good way), with talent leaving a “sinking ship” to go and work for a place that does pro-wrestling right.

They were offering $500 to MIKE KANELLIS to keep him on their bench. Now Matt Riddle is getting $400k. What’s he going to do? Go to AEW and floss with Marko Stunt? Be a bad-ass in the league that promotes a dude with the frame of David Arquette who fights with his hands in his pockets? Ha! Go on!

And when AEW talent go to jump ship, I am pretty sure they are either going to be passed on entirely or given the EC3 treatment. The message? If you sign with AEW, that’s your ceiling. At least they can get paid to be fairly anonymous there.

I just hope people can see that AEW is not the best shot you can take against Vince and it doesn’t scare off others from getting involved in wrestling. Because I do not want a WWE monopoly anymore.
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Old 02-14-2021, 09:38 AM   #2667
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Noid I don't think there is room for "another big Wrestling promotion" at this point. For a multitude of reasons. One reason is there is no shortage of Wrestling on TV, it's on almost every night. Also talent, they are all signed. There isn't a large pool of unsigned talent out there ready to carry a promotion to success.
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Old 02-14-2021, 10:37 AM   #2668
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Eh, I also think WWE has been in the game so long that your casual fan isn't going to know what anything outside WWE is. That's the huge advantage they have, brand recognition.


Anything else, regardless of how big it ever gets, will always be seen as "2nd rate".
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Old 02-14-2021, 12:08 PM   #2669
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I mean right now you have AEW, NJPW, Impact, ROH, AAA, CMLL, GCW, NWA, and RevPro among others all willing to work together outright or in various arrangements.

Of course there will be many people who view anything other than WWE as 2nd rate. But I just think it’s fucking cool that there are near unlimited possibilities everywhere else. It’s like a Fire Pro game come to life.
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Old 02-14-2021, 01:49 PM   #2670
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CBS should MLW and air it every night of the week in primetime
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Old 02-14-2021, 02:09 PM   #2671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan X View Post
Noid I don't think there is room for "another big Wrestling promotion" at this point. For a multitude of reasons. One reason is there is no shortage of Wrestling on TV, it's on almost every night. Also talent, they are all signed. There isn't a large pool of unsigned talent out there ready to carry a promotion to success.
Without anything major changing, Brock Lesnar, CM Punk and Ronda Rousey should all be free agents by May. You could also sign talent from ROH, MLW, the NWA, New Japan, MLW and AEW. They aren’t going to fight you too hard in contracts.

I don’t think the wrestling on TV has the awareness to get in the way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drave View Post
Eh, I also think WWE has been in the game so long that your casual fan isn't going to know what anything outside WWE is. That's the huge advantage they have, brand recognition.


Anything else, regardless of how big it ever gets, will always be seen as "2nd rate".
Unless it is significantly better and actually brands itself effectively as something else.
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Old 02-17-2021, 04:17 PM   #2672
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RAW catching up to SD almost

1.81 million this week
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Old 02-17-2021, 06:17 PM   #2673
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Originally Posted by drave View Post
Eh, I also think WWE has been in the game so long that your casual fan isn't going to know what anything outside WWE is. That's the huge advantage they have, brand recognition.


Anything else, regardless of how big it ever gets, will always be seen as "2nd rate".
Been saying this since AEW debuted
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Old 02-18-2021, 07:54 AM   #2674
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Kinda sucks. If there ever were a time where any other fed was on top, still feel like they'd be fucked.
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Old 02-18-2021, 11:12 AM   #2675
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WWE is the Kleenex of facial tissues
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Old 02-18-2021, 06:04 PM   #2676
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AEW 747,000
WWE Develomental 713,000


LMAO millions and millions spent and they barely beat Developmental.
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Old 02-18-2021, 06:25 PM   #2677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Gertner of TPWW View Post
AEW 747,000
WWE Develomental 713,000


LMAO millions and millions spent and they barely beat Developmental.
Having a 61 year old man with spinal stenosis take a Powerbomb just to get 34,000 more viewers is a sound business decision
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Old 02-19-2021, 03:10 AM   #2678
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USA probably pays less for NXT, gets more revenue because it’s PG and is a globally recognised brand, and gets to keep all the ad revenue too. AEW is super-niche, barely wins in viewership, doesn’t have anywhere near the product awareness, isn’t PG and keeps half the ad rev.

Yep, AEW is so much more valuable to TNT...lol.

Also, Sting bumping gives me the heeby-jeebies. And putting Brodie’s kid on TV is just exploitative at this point.
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Old 02-19-2021, 10:54 AM   #2679
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USA probably pays less for NXT, gets more revenue because it’s PG and is a globally recognised brand, and gets to keep all the ad revenue too. AEW is super-niche, barely wins in viewership, doesn’t have anywhere near the product awareness, isn’t PG and keeps half the ad rev.
NXT is PG and a globally recognized brand and AEW is super-niche, not PG and doesn’t have anywhere near the product awareness of NXT.

NXT should be crushing them in the ratings based on those facts alone.
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Old 02-19-2021, 11:37 AM   #2680
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I don't know about that. TNT promotes the shit out of AEW and TSN up here in Canada does as well.

AEW also had a sizable built in audience from the get go. The problem is, it's the exact same audience from a year and a half ago. Casual fans view NXT and AEW both as minor league, so that's why they are both at where they're at
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