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Old 07-07-2020, 06:03 PM   #2761
Jordan
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Old 07-07-2020, 06:07 PM   #2762
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If they had any goddamn decency they would give New Jack a spot to come out and stab up or push off new talent that doesn't "appease" the hostile AEW crowd. Like a new murderous version of 911. When I wrote "push off" you get it right? Like he pushes them off something thats tall.
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Old 07-07-2020, 06:12 PM   #2763
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Originally Posted by Jordan X View Post
AEW/WWE war is toxic and constant and also what is with the female wrestling STANS (I hate how this term is so widely used) and their devout passion that goes back to the whorey days of Lita and Trish to a complete obsession with Sasha or Bailey or Io ... god let's not even get into the Joshi fans.
Nah, let's get into it. Cause it's a fucking problem. Used to be that Joshi fans were just people who discovered classic AJW, and thought it was cool. It didn't really matter that they were women, although it was admittedly novel to see such great women's wrestling. The draw was the quality of the content. AJW from early 80's to late 90's is fantastic.

But then Japanese idol culture took over Joshi, and it's spawned an army of creepy man baby fans who actually use japanese phrases like "kawaii" in day to day speech as if that's normal. There's still a lot of great Joshi wrestlers out there, but the scene has absolutely suffered because of the culture shift. Less focus on athletic ability, and more focus on looks and marketability has led to lots of shitty wrestlers getting pushes when in the past, they would have been kicked out of the training group on week one.

I imagine it's a similar mentality from the Sasha and Bailey worshippers, as you put it. Admittedly, I batted hard for them early on, during the nxt days, but that was because of how good the matches were, and because it gave me hope that we might see the same AJW level quality in women's wrestling as a whole in the US. That didn't pan out, obviously.

All that said, I get why fans would get really attached to Io, because she's REALLY good in the ring. Sasha too, when she's not trying to break her own neck. But there are absolutely people who take it to far.
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Old 07-07-2020, 06:22 PM   #2764
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I'm speaking about westernjoshi fans, but Japanese Joshi fans aren't any different really. The young girls that used to make the fanbase in Japan all grew up and now make up the majority of New Japan's fanbase. That's why Stardom got such backlash for having a match at Wrestle Kingdom. Fans want to oogle Tanahashi's pecks, not watch women's wrestling, with an aesthetic that appeals directly to male incels.
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Old 07-07-2020, 06:22 PM   #2765
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Originally Posted by Emperor Smeat View Post
Yes. They've done it several times already.

Most recent was Alvarez feeling AEW has been starting to overthink their booking for shows to the point its been hurting more than helping them.

If you want something more of the level of Cornette, PWInsider was that during the early months of the AEW vs. NXT war where almost everything AEW was doing was getting picked apart and NXT's issues were mostly ignored. That pretty much changed after a few months when the effect of WWE becoming more hands-on and the changes made to NXT started to become more of a detriment to the brand.
Nah, Alvarez and Meltzer are not it, I'm afraid. They will call something "bad" when it is atrocious, but they will largely go out of their way to bash NXT and avoid talking shit about AEW. Alvarez was *confused* as to why AEW got beaten by NXT, when it is clear as day. He just didn't want to say "Orange Cassidy isn't going to work." Because he's worked with him and gone on the record as saying he's brilliant and what have you.

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Nah, let's get into it. Cause it's a fucking problem. Used to be that Joshi fans were just people who discovered classic AJW, and thought it was cool. It didn't really matter that they were women, although it was admittedly novel to see such great women's wrestling. The draw was the quality of the content. AJW from early 80's to late 90's is fantastic.

But then Japanese idol culture took over Joshi, and it's spawned an army of creepy man baby fans who actually use japanese phrases like "kawaii" in day to day speech as if that's normal. There's still a lot of great Joshi wrestlers out there, but the scene has absolutely suffered because of the culture shift. Less focus on athletic ability, and more focus on looks and marketability has led to lots of shitty wrestlers getting pushes when in the past, they would have been kicked out of the training group on week one.

I imagine it's a similar mentality from the Sasha and Bailey worshippers, as you put it. Admittedly, I batted hard for them early on, during the nxt days, but that was because of how good the matches were, and because it gave me hope that we might see the same AJW level quality in women's wrestling as a whole in the US. That didn't pan out, obviously.

All that said, I get why fans would get really attached to Io, because she's REALLY good in the ring. Sasha too, when she's not trying to break her own neck. But there are absolutely people who take it to far.
Is it an entirely new thing? "Celebrities" have had their toxic fans/stalkers/obsessives for a long, long time. I do wonder if it's just that the more adjusted and measured fans have been run the fuck off. Now all you've got are the gate-keepers. At least when something has a general appeal, they disappear into a crowd.
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Old 07-07-2020, 06:32 PM   #2766
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I'm sure there were always a few creepy weirdos about, but they exploded in number when the industry started marketing itself in a way that directly appealed to those types of people.
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Old 07-07-2020, 06:41 PM   #2767
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Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
I'm sure there were always a few creepy weirdos about, but they exploded in number when the industry started marketing itself in a way that directly appealed to those types of people.
I have no doubt that companies have played into this. Joshi is absolutely nauseatingly...fucking creepy. I've been going on a bit of a kick of AJW recently, and it's great shit. They're actually trying to have matches and stuff. That Emi Sakura seems like a Japanese ringmaster leading her sexualized performing lionesses to the ring. She gives off this Japanese Moolah vibe.

AEW and WWE have both catered way too hard to that online contingent. It's a strategy that was mocked hard even 10 years ago. What was the saying? "About 5% of wrestling fans are on the internet." Oddly enough, I don't think that statistic has changed, but the internet has just gotten louder and more influential, while the audience has just gotten smaller and smaller (including the online one).
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Old 07-07-2020, 06:47 PM   #2768
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There was a match I posted here a while back between Dump Matsumoto vs Chigusa Nagayo that only had about 3 bumps in it, but the whole thing was great because of the story they told, the heat behind it, and crowd's insanity.

There are still Joshi promotions out there that skew more towards AJW's style. Namely promotions that are run by AJW veterans or Women who were trained by AJW Veterans. Meiko Satamura's Sendai Girls promotion is one of them.
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Old 07-07-2020, 06:49 PM   #2769
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There was a match I posted here a while back between Dump Matsumoto vs Chigusa Nagayo that only had about 3 bumps in it, but the whole thing was insane because of the story they told, the heat behind it, and crowd's insanity.

There are still Joshi promotions out there that skew more towards AJW's style. Namely promotions that are run by AJW veterans or Women who were trained by AJW Veterans. Meiko Satamura's Sendai Girls promotion is one of them.
I might check them out. I think I saw a Meiko Satomura match from the Mae Young Classic and was impressed.

I would like to see them bring Satomura in as a one-off challenger to Asuka. While you've got these joshi who can do shit, run their matches and see if it takes off, or at least adds a temporary flavor to things. Asuka vs. Kairi Sane, Asuka vs. Meiko Satomura, Asuka vs. Io Shirai -- all three could be solid matches that would spark smark interest and would get you through three months.

Eh, whatever.
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Old 07-07-2020, 06:59 PM   #2770
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Meiko, even at her age, is still one of the best in the world. Because she hits hard and her offense is believable.

That Physicality is what had been missing in women's wrestling in the states. It's no coincidence that the best women's matches in WWE are from women like Asuka and Charlotte, who aren't afraid to lay that shit in.
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Old 07-07-2020, 09:26 PM   #2771
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Meiko’s great and would be a valuable add to anyone who brings her in. She’s got a lot of knowledge she can pass on as well.

Supposedly WWE wanted her as a trainer for the rumored NXT Japan. Had she signed she might’ve been the last WCW holdout!
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Old 07-07-2020, 09:48 PM   #2772
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My only exposure to joshi fans was on that Stardom episode of the Wrestlers on Viceland. But it seemed like all weirdos.
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Old 07-07-2020, 09:54 PM   #2773
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Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
But, um, do you know who is currently in a blood feud with Chris Jericho? He’s a 5’10, 161lbs indy darling, whose whole gimmick is that wrestling is bullshit and you shouldn’t try at the start. When he started getting shit in on Jericho, people actually tuned out of Jericho segments. A closing segment where he Superman Punched Jericho, and Jericho bumped himself (I say that, because it didn’t look like a reasonable transfer of kinetic energy at all) through a table got beat by NXT by an alleged 300k viewers. It did 165% of AEW’s audience.

They absolutely do the shit you say is poison. And it is poison. You just haven’t come across it yet, haha.
Jericho is in his post-title run, pre-Tyson? stage. I’m not an Orange Cassidy fan but it just seems like something to keep him busy. If he jobs, that’s a whole other problem. I don’t look at the feud as the rise of Orange Cassidy as a legit main eventer though. Darby Allin challenged for the world title, too. It was a TV main event. It was fine. The guys they’ve seemed to push as serious contenders have been Cody, Moxley, Brodie, Hager, Archer and Cage. They lean toward old school heavyweights/personalities more than WWE does nowadays. The work rate indy darlings aren’t pushed as the headliners.
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Old 07-07-2020, 11:11 PM   #2774
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Watched AEWDark for the first time. Not sure it's the show for me tbh - some thoughts:

  • Enjoyed seeing Brian Pillman Jr - lots of potential
  • Would like to see Serpentico wrestle Darby, Jungle and Starks
  • Why isn't Scorpio on Dynamite more
  • Best I've seen from Brandon Cutler so far
  • Not sure why Michael Takazawa is employed
  • Tazz/Excalibur work well together on commentary
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Old 07-07-2020, 11:12 PM   #2775
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I agree - great idea
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Old 07-07-2020, 11:45 PM   #2776
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My only exposure to joshi fans was on that Stardom episode of the Wrestlers on Viceland. But it seemed like all weirdos.
The Viceland episode exposed how creepy and weird a lot of the Japanese fan base is, and how the company profits off it at the detriment to their talent. That was a really good episode.
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Old 07-07-2020, 11:48 PM   #2777
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Watched AEWDark for the first time. Not sure it's the show for me tbh - some thoughts:
  • Enjoyed seeing Brian Pillman Jr - lots of potential
  • Would like to see Serpentico wrestle Darby, Jungle and Starks
  • Why isn't Scorpio on Dynamite more
  • Best I've seen from Brandon Cutler so far
  • Not sure why Michael Takazawa is employed
  • Tazz/Excalibur work well together on commentary
Dark has been very hit-or-miss ever since they started empty arena shows. Been a lot more like old WWF shows in terms of leaning heavily towards squash and jobber matches for quality and less of what it was prior. Mix of them catching up on lost time for records purposes and providing a reliable paycheck to more people during these coronavirus times.

In regards to Takazawa, he apparently helps out a lot with backstage work and as a go-to guy for the company's Japanese talent. They just use him on-screen whenever they want to freshen things up for a jobber or a comedy match.
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Old 07-07-2020, 11:54 PM   #2778
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I love how Brandon Cutler has this really intense, ominous entrance theme, despite being an enhancement talent.
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Old 07-08-2020, 12:21 AM   #2779
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Dump Matsumoto
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Old 07-08-2020, 12:30 AM   #2780
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Jericho is in his post-title run, pre-Tyson? stage. I’m not an Orange Cassidy fan but it just seems like something to keep him busy. If he jobs, that’s a whole other problem. I don’t look at the feud as the rise of Orange Cassidy as a legit main eventer though. Darby Allin challenged for the world title, too. It was a TV main event. It was fine. The guys they’ve seemed to push as serious contenders have been Cody, Moxley, Brodie, Hager, Archer and Cage. They lean toward old school heavyweights/personalities more than WWE does nowadays. The work rate indy darlings aren’t pushed as the headliners.
He’s in the main event of various TV segments and he’s about to main event FyterFest, which was one of their BS Live specials. He’s getting a push and Jericho is doing his best to put him over. It’s fucking obscene and it’s fucking them in the ratings.

Archer was never a main eventer. Harper is already done and has the worst gimmick of all-time. Cage will be done too. Hager is not a main eventer. The story is Jericho and Cassidy.
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Old 07-08-2020, 01:33 AM   #2781
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I think Scorpio Sky is on dark strictly to pad his singles record before they push him on the main show.
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Old 07-08-2020, 01:52 AM   #2782
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It's one of my favorite wrestling names ever.
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Old 07-08-2020, 04:00 AM   #2783
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I agree - great idea
Do

They have anyone that isnt a cruiser weight?
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Old 07-08-2020, 05:48 AM   #2784
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I know that was rhetorical, but let's actually take a look.

Cruiserweights:

* Adam Page
* Alex Reynolds
* Angelico
* Anthony Ogogo
* The Blade
* Brandon Cutler
* Chuck Taylor
* Cima
* Cody
* Darby Allin
* Evil Uno
* Frankie Kazarian
* Isiah Kassidy
* Jack Evans
* Jimmy Havoc
* Joey Janela
* John Silver
* Jungle Boy
* Kenny Omega
* Kip Sabian
* Marko Stunt
* Marq Quen
* Matt Jackson
* Michael Nakazawa
* MJF
* Nick Jackson
* Orange Cassidy
* Ortiz
* Pac
* Pentagon, Jr.
* Peter Avalon
* Rey Fenix
* Ricky Starks
* Sammy Guevara
* Santana
* Scorpio Sky
* Sonny Kiss
* Stu Grayson
* Trent

Not a cruiserweight:

* Austin Gunn
* Billy
* Brian Cage
* Brodie Lee
* The Butcher
* Cash Wheeler
* Chris Jericho
* Christopher Daniels (I don't believe this)
* Colt Cabana
* Dax Harwood
* Dustin Rhodes
* Jake Hager
* Jon Moxley
* Lance Archer
* Luchasaurus
* Matt Hardy
* Preston Vance
* QT Marshall
* Shawn Spears
* Wardlow

Man, their roster is shit, hahaha.
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Old 07-09-2020, 09:59 PM   #2785
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Old 07-10-2020, 05:19 AM   #2786
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Lol, is that a tongue-in-cheek Seth Rollins-style tweet, or is Dax being serious? Because if so, fuck these bootlickers. I am so done with this "just happy to be here" attitude. They've been there a few weeks, how would they know shit about the culture yet? Yuck.

Also, Jericho is proving himself to be a wash-up with a vod bod.
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Old 07-10-2020, 01:22 PM   #2787
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Shame on them for liking their new workplace environment more than the last one!!


SHAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEE.
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Old 07-10-2020, 02:43 PM   #2788
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I'd wager that you don't have to be in a non-WWE locker room for more than one night before you realize how different the environment is.
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Old 07-10-2020, 03:38 PM   #2789
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You could probably use that as any job with shit management.
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Old 07-10-2020, 06:26 PM   #2790
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Which Khan touched Noid and where?

Brodie lee has the “worst gimmick of all time”... there was once a turkey that got a hyped debut.
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Old 07-10-2020, 06:38 PM   #2791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conspiracy Victim Vito View Post
I'd wager that you don't have to be in a non-WWE locker room for more than one night before you realize how different the environment is.
Yeah, even Deonna Purrazzo recently mentioned in an interview that Impact's locker room instantly felt more receptive and cheerful to be in than the WWE/NXT locker room she had been a part of for almost 2 years.
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Old 07-10-2020, 08:01 PM   #2792
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Originally Posted by Slik View Post
Lol WTF is this WE shit? They have been there like 2 weeks
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Old 07-10-2020, 08:26 PM   #2793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drave View Post
Shame on them for liking their new workplace environment more than the last one!!


SHAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEE.
That's not the problem. The problem is they are shilling so hard for a place they just got to. Everybody knows it's bullshit because it's the same thing they have all been saying since day one. It is company speak rhetoric, no different than Vince McMahon making his wrestlers say they are sports entertainers.

Why do you think Tony Khan spazzes out whenever anybody questions anything about that company?

Why do you think their biggest star says the exact same thing about ratings and demos as the spaz son of a Billionaire?

Their entire blueprint is just say it's all the best and if you disagree fuck you you don't understand anything?

It's Impact Wrestling with WAY more hype and less actual stars.

Their biggest success is that they have brainwashed a few hundred thousand fans into actually buying into all of it as the greatest thing ever with the same overcocky sarcastic responses to any perceived slight.

God forbid somebody thinks it's funny FTR are already shilling when they just got there, better make cool reply to show them!

I know, I'll say "shame shammmmmme, Nick Jackson himself would think I'm awesome and give a high five for that!"

Everything has to be a pissing contest when it comes to AEW and its annoying and exhausting.
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Old 07-10-2020, 08:30 PM   #2794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conspiracy Victim Vito View Post
I'd wager that you don't have to be in a non-WWE locker room for more than one night before you realize how different the environment is.
Wait until the money dries up and you start hearing the shoot interviews about how chaotic it was and no one was in charge and they fucking hated the cliques and the politics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting Fan View Post
Which Khan touched Noid and where?

Brodie lee has the “worst gimmick of all time”... there was once a turkey that got a hyped debut.
Brodie Lee and The Dark Order have actually been pushed as a main event level stable. It would be tight if The Gobbledy Gooker worked Hogan for the WWF Title.
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Old 07-10-2020, 08:44 PM   #2795
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I’m not a huge fan of Brodie’s gimmick either, but it’s a far cry from the gobbledy gooker. And there’s never been anything silly about his work in the ring.

The Colt Cabana stuff has me intrigued. Nice to see more from him than his usual comedy shtick.
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Old 07-10-2020, 08:48 PM   #2796
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Oh so not worst gimmick of all time? But the worst gimmick of all time to fight for a world title? Can you just clarify that’s your position before I go find a more ridiculous guy who fought for a title.

I mean as a place holder the great khali was world champion in recent memory... gimmick “I’m a tall indian man”
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Old 07-10-2020, 09:14 PM   #2797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting Fan View Post
Oh so not worst gimmick of all time? But the worst gimmick of all time to fight for a world title? Can you just clarify that’s your position before I go find a more ridiculous guy who fought for a title.

I mean as a place holder the great khali was world champion in recent memory... gimmick “I’m a tall indian man”
Shut the fuck up -- what the fuck makes you think you're entitled to such qualifiers. "Please explain your hyperbole, young man." Go fuck yourself.

Khali actually means something in India. Brodie Lee has exposed all the potential people thought he had as absolute bullshit. Being a "tall Indian man" is much less offensive than AWFUL Vince McMahon parody.

And yes, how something is pushed does affect how fucking offensive it is. Can anyone name a worse faction than The Dark Order?
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Old 07-10-2020, 09:14 PM   #2798
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Also fucking cute how AEW discussion has turned into just how close to the fucking bottom it is.
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Old 07-10-2020, 10:45 PM   #2799
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Ah yes, because a whopping two people troll AEW threads attacking it constantly
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Old 07-10-2020, 10:49 PM   #2800
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